Rogue Daggers and Backstab Damage

[TheBloodmoon]

So, upon researching dagger upgrade options for my rogue, I discovered that rogues are fairly limited in T6 and T7.

The 5% drop rate on Vampiric Fang of Blood off Redfang for starters is a bit dismal, although I can live with it. What is most disappointing, however, is the lack of +Backstab Damage on the weapon, which is 0.

Also, Aged Nightfall from Nexona in VP is lacking any +Backstab Damage modifier.

Same is also true of Lilac, Cruel Manipulator from Visath. (also a 5% drop rate, limiting upgrade options again)

Considering that both the Bone Razor (PoFear) and Ifir, Dagger of Chaos(Fennin Ro) have +Backstab Damage modifiers, the two aforementioned daggers are not much of an upgrade when backstab is considered in overall rogue dps.

Now, undoubtedly the regular melee and proc benefits from Vampiric Fang of Blood and Aged Nightfall are straight out of the box better, but they do little to increase Backstab damage overall. I understand the additional damage from the modifier doesn't add tremendous amounts of damage, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be factored in as upgraded stats to higher tiered daggers. Every little bit helps.

And since we're talking about rogues here, I'm having a hard time locating gear with +% to piercing. I want to drop my Beautiful Face augment in favor of a higher AC/HP upgrade, but I can't locate anything with a +% piercing mods. Considering the abundance of other +% mods to include blunt and slash, it would make sense to include piercing in the mix. I would request that at the least, more options are made available in T6 or T7 gear, perhaps placed on Ancient Chain (VP Armor). The Ancient Chain Helmet or Arms would make good choices, for example.

Thanks for any consideration on these topics. =)

Edit: Added Clone links and supporting evidence.

[Brontu]

fyi - if your just going off the clone - the clone does NOT show the backstab modifiers, look for links in game - i know for a fact that the Vp dagger has backstab dmg

for an example:

webtools/items.php?id=120477

(final t8 dagger evolve) definately has one of the highest backstab dmg in game atm (cant give exact value as im not in game atm) but the +backstab dmg doesnt register on the clone.

[Brontu]

double checked RQ - and yeah Aged Nightfall for example has +57 Backstab dmg on it

err thats with the t7 hatchet aug its 55 without.

[TheBloodmoon]

Thanks Brontu, but I do know that...

I linked for easy reference.

Also, I'm looking at the Aged Nightfall on my rogue right now, and I don't see any backstab modifier.

I think you are mistaken. +Backstab Damage modifier is different than Backstab Damage. I am referring to the modifier and not the damage used to calculate base backstab damage.

Refer to Bone Razor for example (read:Extra damages (Backstab): +85):

Bone Razor
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: SECONDARY, PRIMARY
Skill : Piercing Atk Delay: 27
DMG: 52 Dmg bonus: 15 (lvl70) AC: 50
Skill Mod: Backstab +20%
Effect: Superior LifeTap (Combat)
STR: +25 DEX: +25 STA: +25 WIS: +25 CHA: +15
HP: +675 MANA: +625 Endurance: +625
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +35 SV COLD: +35 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +25
Extra damages (Backstab): +85
Combat Effects: +20
Accuracy: +25
Required level of 70
WT: 1.5 Size: MEDIUM
Class: ROG BRD RNG WAR
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type: 8 empty
Slot 2, Type: 16 empty

I appreciate your input, however we are talking about two different things.

[Brontu]

Ahh yeah i see what u mean.

Will definately agree rogues are hurting from lack of a decent dagger t6-t7.

My b :p

[Lillu]

Imo the real question is, are the higher tier daggers better dps (aka upgrades) to the lower ones? Yep, they are. Other than that it doesn't really matter how the damage they deal is calculated. Based on extra backstab damage, better ratio, base damage, etc.

[TheBloodmoon]

While I don't disagree with you, Lillu, why then wouldn't they not be given the extra edge in dps?

I am just speaking literally in terms of backstab damage output, and not overall DPS. It's not that I have an issue with the raw dps, so much as it is the principal of progression for rogue daggers.

To clarify:

I did some backstab tests in GH on Vlad to compare differences that the modifier adds.

Unbuffed, my rogue backstabs for 8326 max crit with Aged Nightfall dagger in primary (55 Backstab Damage, no additional modifier) and Rogue 2.0 in range (+85 modifier). Secondary is Blade of Thuuli (no added backstab benefits).

Same setup with Ifir, Dagger of Chaos added to secondary instead (+100 BS mod), I backstab for 8456.

Sure, the difference isn't huge here, like I mentioned before, but more is always better, and why shouldn't the upgrades match the progression path of incremental increases in all (or most) areas?

It's not a huge issue, but it's been bugging me for a long time. Now that I am able to acquire said upgrades, I felt the need to put in my 2 cents and request.

[Grey]

imo Fenny dagger is OP
When Fire/Air was the top content it was balanced but things have changed and that dagger could use a nice little swing of the nerfbat which would open the line of other daggers in T6+ to be upgraded along a smooth path.

Now I agree with Lillu that the higher tiered items can be - generally are - better over all dps but I like the white damage to be what I expect and when I see backstabs that make zero sense I scratch my head and log the rogue out.
IE I havnt played it in over a year (I suck at rogue btw and it takes to much effort to maximize).

Just my opinion, I've felt this way for a long time but waited for another person to make this type of post so I could hug it.