Frozen Whispering Tunic (Rogue ToV BP)

[TheBloodmoon]

So, I've noticed that the rogue ToV BP: Frozen Whispering Tunic doesn't seem to have a working clicky on it. The click full weakening, even if functioning, is fairly weak anyhow. So, after talking with Jeido, I had a random idea for a click that would be a hundred times more useful, and would be part of the class defining ability, which is backstab.

I would suggest replacing the clicky with one of the rogue sneak attack disciplines, possibly one of the lower ones, like possibly the level 63 disc Assassin's Strike or even the level 65 disc Kyv Strike (Daggerfall in my opinion may be too powerful) while keeping a low reuse timer similar to the reuse timer of the disc(s) currently, which is 30 seconds. Also, recalling an item on the EZ server, the rogue epic 3.0 had daggerfall as the click on it, there was no requirement to be hidden to click the effect. So to keep the click worth using, I would suggest making the requirement to hide removed, if it isn't already set that way by default. This should keep it useful, especially to those of us who box rogues.

So, to sum it up, the upside to this is the ability to bypass the need to hide before hitting the disc. Would give rogues more dps as there's no need to break autoattack to hide, then wait a sec, then disc, then hit autoattack again.

[Tyler]

As always, we can discuss about options for clicks on BP. Not sure where rogues stand atm DPS wise.

Can someone post some parses during Raid fights? Comparable etc. Then we can go from there and decide what effect and at what magnitude this will be implemented.

[TheBloodmoon]

When I get a chance, I will. I never remember to log my fights, lol.

If anyone else has some parses, feel free! =D

[Koeril]

Please remember to filter out you non-melee hits as they will skew your results in that parse. The EQ log files do not collect non-melee from others and so your procs will be counted, but others will not.

I've not played yet since Rogue DPS changes went live, but I can't see this as being a huge increase in DPS. Any self respecting EQEmu Rogue has a macro to do it anyways with only a /pause 1 after the hide.

At most we might miss 4 hits I would think (assuming they all hit).

• /attack off
• /doability hide#
• /pause 1
• /disc daggerfall
• /attack on

[TheBloodmoon]

Actually, I have that same hotkey in use.

But think about it. You can hit your disc hotkey, allow it to expire after you hit backstab, then click your BP and have an extra backstab sneak attack disc as interim while you wait for your disc to repop, and also doesn't require you to lose 2 or 3 "swings" (up to 6 hits) and any procs on top of those swings to hit a hide and disc hotkey.

In the words of the people on the GoBERSERKER forum for EQ Live, "MOAR IS BETTER!"

More is always better, and even 5% increase to dps is better than the broken clicky.

And yeah, I filter out non melee hits anyway.

Just give me a couple days to get a parse up, though, and then we can talk numbers. I have a feeling that we'll want to look over multiple parses, with and without discs, though, to get an accurate measurement. Will need more rogues to help on this....

[Koeril]

have an extra backstab sneak attack disc as interim while you wait for your disc to repop

Ahhh! Wasn't thinking in these terms and didn't notice that you mentioned 2 different backstab disc ... that would be sweet!

[Shin Noir]

my parses never include non-melee, and we did get a definite boost with that last revision fix/whatever.

Clicky "discipline" with it's own recast type / timer would be awesome, those backstab disciplines are nice.

Daggerfall's overall added DPS is roughly..
http://thehiddenforest.dyndns.org/spell.php?id=6174
take your highest non-disc BS dmg, add 160% dmg to it, and add 200% to a min dmg hit increase, give it an extra 275% chance to crit hit, we'll say it's about 10k dmg crit hit with daggerfall (this is being optimistic not sure I really hit that hard, maybe with double/triple attack). If it has a 30 second recast, it means it dealt an extra (10000/30) 333 DPS in this scenario at best case scenario of everything hitting max.

(Technically less than that DPS since if you don't use the discipline and use normal BS instead, you should negate the difference to figure out how much it truly added and also remember you stopped your attacking for a second to utilize this disc too!)

But number crunching aside, it would be nice to have a lesser form. Yes.

[Koeril]

A sample size of 27 tov trash filghts:

New crit backstab high is 10128 with the deep sea trident + cold aug (41+2 base) and average DPS without normal procs was 1100. Unfortunately, GamParse seems to pick up crit blasts, however, so I will need to filter those out next time.

*Edit* Actually the number I posted was with non-melee hits. Although I assumed that setting the "spell damage" to hide would hide the non-melee, it in fact does not so I posted that number which included panther a lot of times. Average DPS was 1102, procs was 218, therefore raw melee DPS is 884.

[Tyler]

And others?

[Koeril]

I shouldn't have mentioned DPS numbers in this thread - off topic.