T7/8 Skill Mod Changes

[Stickybuds]

Ok well i know we are derailed this with a bit of a wiz and zerker dps talk but since its being brought up I wanted to say this.
While the glad change effected pretty much every dps class, and i do understand why it was fixed, imo it really did hurt the wizards the most.

Before that glad change were changes, fixes really, to wizards agro as a lot of their 70 custom spells were not doing proper hate values. This changed the way many wizards and even a lot of tanks played. But despite that change we could still do good dps with them with a good tank and good rotation and some jolts here and there.

But combine all of the changes and what we have now is a agro magnet that does lower dps than almost every other dps class of equal gear and buff/debuff scenario.

Now i know i have put a LOT more time and effort into Mary and that she has donor legs buff for a nice dps boost while loki has no donors. it just seems weird that my bard who is a utility/dps class is doing more dps using a non-donor disc. while loki is a wizard the pure high dps but with risk from no other options other than doing dps, and he is doing less dps than my bard.

I can totally understand with a lot of the changes and fixes that have been made and agree with the reasoning behind them. I just hope some changes are made in the future to bring wizards back up. I know we are always in a constant state of balance, and that wizards often go up and down. and yall do a really great job at balancing the many classes in EQ. But I feel the wizards are pretty down atm.

Regards,
Sticky

[Tristhan]

But combine all of the changes and what we have now is a agro magnet that does lower dps than almost every other dps class of equal gear and buff/debuff scenario.

I can totally understand with a lot of the changes and fixes that have been made and agree with the reasoning behind them. I just hope some changes are made in the future to bring wizards back up. I know we are always in a constant state of balance, and that wizards often go up and down. and yall do a really great job at balancing the many classes in EQ. But I feel the wizards are pretty down atm.

Thank you for that post, i only can fully agree.
And i am glad many other player on THF see it the same way.

[Lillu]

Thanks for the feedback guys, it's much appreciated.

I'm not trying to derail either but it would be nice to see where exactly wizard are, because frankly, they were totally out of the roof. This is why everyone started to build wizard armies, and this is why some players are upset about the changes now. I understand wizards do less dps now with higher risk factor, but this was exactly the goal with some of the recent changes, and I believe this class is still the most awesome dps class in many situation (if you compare equal gear level and spell rank level to other dps classes).
Mary is most probably among the top 3 bards on THF, gear, spell and skill wise, with one of the best dps boost item in-game (donor pants). Not really comparable to a non-donor boxed alt.

Again, please keep us updated, and let us know if something is out of the line. We are always open to players input.

[Firenze]

What the hell, I quit playing and Monks get back on top of dps pyramid.

something is clearly wrong here !

[Lillu]

What the hell, I quit playing and Monks get back on top of dps pyramid.

something is clearly wrong here !

[lpdfan]

making the two classes (wizard/berserker) that dominated parses for years drop down to third and fourth place (way behind rogues and monks) seems more like punishment.

This is why everyone started to build wizard armies, and this is why some players are upset about the changes now. I understand wizards do less dps now with higher risk factor, but this was exactly the goal with some of the recent changes

Sounds like Warlgor was kinda right a little bit? A reaction toward a some players making multiple wizards in their box armies? Is that so bad, though, if they are willing to sacrifice the utility or have a big enough army to include utility classes and wizards?

From reading prior posts, I always assumed that this server operated on the principle that dps and utility were inversely proportional. Zerkers and wizards had the highest dps because without that, there is no reason on earth to make either. Rogues have a little utility, but at least sneak and lock picking are something. Monks have mend and FD, which are both huge advantages over the zerker. Also, both dual wield, so by nature they have an extra equipment slot with four extra aug slots (not even close to made up for by a little stat bump in 2h weapons, btw), as well as seeing procs fire more often due to more swings (think healing on donor pants). Thats why it made sense to me to have zerkers as a slight winner in dps. As for wizards, without high dps, they are as useless as *@#! on a boar hog, especially when I see brand-new 70 mages buy donor robe and solo through t3 and 14k ac monks soloing minis in t8 while both out-dpsing wizards in raids. Wiz have near zero utility and absolute zero solo ability since everything in the tiers summon.

Maybe I'm wrong, though, and the dps/utility ratio isn't what guides the devs. I'd like to understand and alter my thinking if so.

[Lillu]

There's no punishment and no change in DPS order, at least not intentionally. The goal is to balance out DPS classes and make each and every one of them desirable.

That being said, we are open to any doscussion and suggestion if the above statement wasn't the case.

[Delin]

It is nice having DPS alternatives, running wizard armies is extremely boring and stale. Balance is good. My berserker does in fact seem to be behind so I understand the concern, haven't parsed my wizard. Id like to see everything as close as possible as opposed to having a powerhouse to the point where everyone only plays that class. Which understandably is a hard thing to perfect considering every little change and every gear update has the potential to sway the balance.

[lpdfan]

There's no punishment and no change in DPS order, at least not intentionally. The goal is to balance out DPS classes and make each and every one of them desirable.

That being said, we are open to any doscussion and suggestion if the above statement wasn't the case.

Thanks Lillu, that is very encouraging.

Seems like this recent post by Delin is an excellent place to start. Its hard to get a good apples to apples comparison, but these characters seem reasonably equally equipped.

Not full burn with debuffs etc, but just did a 5min on Atcho (T1 parser) with my melee loaded to see what it comes out to. Only buffs are Slayers, Bard Epic (up full time forgot to click it off), relevant raid auras. Ill load everything at some point and post results with full buffs/debuffs.

My characters are all T6-early T8 geared, nothing spectacular. No donors.

Delin(webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Delin)
Warrior : TOTAL 1340043 : DPS 4466.8

Kortik(webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Kortik)
Berserker : TOTAL 1737625 : DPS 5792.1

Naphyne(webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Naphyne)
Rogue : TOTAL 2419489 : DPS 8065.0

Rots(webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Rots)
Monk : TOTAL 2161767 : DPS 7205.9

Muli(webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Muli)
Bard : TOTAL 973094 : DPS 3243.6

[PKinternet]

Here is what I saw today:

T8 Parser (1 Min): Sune Rk2 buffs, Slayer Rk2, Gladiator Rk3, Rk 3 Toys, Raid auras:

Monk ~ Phill http://www.thehiddenforest.org/webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Phill
(Donor 2.0) Total: 390593 DPS: 6509.9

Mage Rk3 Pet ~ Minnows http://www.thehiddenforest.org/webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Minnows
(Just Pet) Total: 438195 DPS: 7303.3
(Just Pet + Donor 2.0) Total: 10025027 DPS: 16750.5
(Donor 2.0 + Bolt Rk3 [6 pets were spawned]) Total: 1441926 DPS: 24032.1

Wizard ~ Bessy http://www.thehiddenforest.org/webtools/magelo/character.php?char=Bessy
(Donor 2.0 + Legs) Total: 1087125 : 18118.8

Everyone scrap your wizards for Mages!