The Hidden Forest

It has come to my attention that caster DPS is lackluster compared to Melee classes.
The problem is how gear and AA scales. As you get more gear like higher dmg/delay ratio weapons, full item haste, insane proc'ing augs and combine that with melee AA's that greatly increase critical hit chance along with a host of other offensive abilities you will have a class (doesn't matter pick one - Rng Mnk SK Pal Rog Ber Brd) that can out damage caster DPS with NO MANA , cant be interrupted and then add disciplines!

Its no wonder the server is flooded with melee classes, melee DPS is the preferred DPS of the hidden forest.

But Scibby you say.. "What about wizards they do good damage!"
So now this whole argument is justified? Just because one caster class can do nice DPS that does not balance the classes.

Add to this discussion the concept of survivability, traditionally in EQ casters die in a few rounds VS mobs their own level because the can pump out greater DPS than the classes that can withstand the blows. This does not occur on THF.

The classes that can rack up the most AC/HP and defensive stats/abilities are the same classes that can rack up the most DPS

--THE FIX---
Simple, but will never happen
Scale down melee DPS while scaling up spell DPS

What do you think?

this is a never ending post hehe

actually Wiz dps are just as good as monk/rogue/zerker , even better

Punish everyone that has invested time into a class they might actually like playing over a class they may hate?

I personally hate wizards, only use the mage as a PL bot and the necro is just something I made for when im bored, pumps great dps on a long fight but on anything else is meh.
No idea what a enc is. Every single time someone found a use for a doner charmed pet it got wacked with the nerf bat.

Anyways its a never ending cycle here. Every couple months someone complains about it.
Looking back 6-12 months ago I see a vast improvement for the silk sissies so I strongly disagree with the idea that everything else needs to be punished.

scibby wrote:--THE FIX---
Simple, but will never happen
Scale down melee DPS while scaling up spell DPS

What do you think?

Two words: Absolutely. Not.

The only thing wrong with Necromancers as a top-tier DPS class is the issue I've stated in this thread. Once Necromancers get a full suite of DoTs they can properly land, and gear gets itemized with necromancer-friendly damage/anti-resistance focuses, people will be wanting Necros for their ability to deal competitive DPS even when nobody's touching the mob.

Mages are a bit underpowered in damage-dealing, but they've got the best pets in the game to make up for it. Mages can solo far longer than anyone else and have the easiest time gearing themselves up - they use the same damage focuses as wizards, and they get even more out of pet focuses since their pets are already mighty to begin with. All they need is for raids to stop being designed so that pets are useless.

Enchanters... I dunno about Enchanters. They're useful, but they're more a support class than anything else. Their capacity for crowd control is great, but there's not a lot of fights that really require their crowd control. Most any problem an Enchanter could solve can also be solved by just throwing another tank at it, and as Grey said, all of the cool stuff they could do with charmed pets in the past has been given the nerfbat. They really could use a hard overhaul by the devs here, to both give them a niche, and the tools the fill that niche.

Wizards already rule the DPS charts. They bust out 50k-75k-100k damage a nuke and dare anyone to challenge their authority. Familiars give them some of the best mana pools and passive Mana regen available, and raid gear of any tier is practically made for them. How many other classes can rip multiple percentage-points of raidboss HP off with each hit? Not many, I'll tell you that.

Melee DPSers are strong. Particularly Warriors, 'Zerkers, and Rogues. But with the exception of Warriors, they also have to survive to deal that DPS. In these bad new days of micromanagement-required fights and raidbosses capable of deathtouching you spontaneously if you fail to complete the proper ritual for enabling DPS, these classes, who MUST be in range of the boss at all times to do anything meaningful, will die. Compare that to the rest of us ranged finger-wigglers - we can sit outside that distance, merrily lobbing in artillery to help out while the tin cans eat all the damage.

Me, I like lifetaps. If the boss has a ranged DD or DoT that can somehow hit me, I can simply siphon some health off the boss to keep myself topped up. Clerics don't even have to shoot me a sideways glance to make sure I'm still alive, unless I get summoned somehow. Nothing's quite as tasty as feeding off the very thing that's so desperately trying to kill you and your friends, but that's probably just my Necromancer bias talking.

scibby wrote:--THE FIX---
Simple, but will never happen
Scale down melee DPS while scaling up spell DPS

What do you think?

I think you've never played the server past T3.

Necro dots running at 22k a tic with no disc

Mage pets hitting for 2k a pop + 1k damage shield on tank (in an invuln fight) + nuking if they feel like it.

Enchanters getting charmable pets + being required to keep adds from straight up eating a raid in T8.

Wizards ... BOOM ROFL

In comparison, my rogue does about a third the damage when he's not popping discs like they're going out of style. Maybe if I had a donor he'd close the gap a little, but if we're talking about the inherent class function i'd have to say: you just don't have the focuses yet.

Firenze wrote:this is a never ending post hehe

actually Wiz dps are just as good as monk/rogue/zerker , even better

I said Wizzes do nice DPS .. we are talking about everyone else who relies on spells for DPS

Grey wrote:Anyways its a never ending cycle here. Every couple months someone complains about it.

If this arguement is that common then of couse there is an issue!

Grey wrote:Punish everyone that has invested time into a class they might actually like playing over a class they may hate?

So instead we force everyone on the server to play as melee class?

Reid wrote:I think you've never played the server past T3.

As casters get more DPS melee get even more.. the gap never changes

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I love this server but...

The point is that hasnt been comented on is that the survivibily of the class is suppossed to be inversly proportional to their dmg output. With all the new weapons with insane dmg/delay ratios there is really no advantage to playing a non-wizard caster. You might as well just scrap the caster classes in their currect form and roll up a Rng/Rog/Ber/War/SK/Pal/Bard

Again you know the solution.. Rebalance magic vs melee dmg back to the way the game mechanics originally intended. Magic > Melee

You made no constructive points for your argument aside from "omg weapons are op".

Try melee'ing something that has ae dots, blinds, and rampages for 10k (or more) and tell me that melee are op. I stated real numbers. I can put numbers up for wizard, rogue, shadowknight, beastlord, druid, and bard. I know the damage a caster is capable of because, while spell damage doesn't show up in other people's logs, spell crits DO. And crit damage unfocused is 2x the base. I always pay attention to spell damage in raids when i can.

You have a complaint with no leg to stand on. Please provide proof to show your dissatisfaction has merit.

I kinda like Banderas style ... so here it goes: