The Hidden Forest

So, based on the fact that VP is basically easier than Plane of Fear or even the warders in Air ( based on my opinion and the fact that basically every guild beating vp lately has yet to beat fear ) I'd like to suggest that the VP key require that you have the flag from cazic thule, so guilds can't go in to vp to farm up for plane of fear. VP was released months after fear, and it wasn't meant as a zone you can use to bypass fear, fear is a gear check / raid check zone, where you can't take your 5 box in and beat it. Vp is basically just that. You beat every mob in vp in 2 attempts, save maybe silverwing / phara dar, i'd say a max of 3 attempts before you beat those mobs, and all can be boxed pretty much just from zoning in and going at it with a geared group of tier 5 people.

I've talked with lillu and other high end players about the state of the zone not really being tier 6, and there was some talk of making it more difficult, which I still feel it needs, but until then I feel like we can stop guilds from going through the zone when they shouldn't be able to by requiring a CT flag.

I'd go as far as to say that vp should require a new key, one that requires a ct flag, but even if this change takes place only for new keys, it'll serve its purpose.

Suggestions / feedback welcome

This is unfortunately a good point. And we'll look into it once time permits.

I have to agree on potentially implementing CT flag requirement for VP. Progressing through this servers content shouldn't translate to skipping raid tiers while rising to the top (with the exception of alts and such).
I know that if I spent valuable time developing a challenging raid zone that was at one point a real challenge, but has since become scarce of players who can just skip right over it, I would feel like the time I invested in that raid zone was a waste.
Fear has become a moot zone since the VP rolled in, which is slightly more appealing and more lenient to those tackling T6.

Thanks for considering this Lillu. Cheers!

Personally i think this is a good idea. At the moment almost any tier 5 guild can jump into VP no problem, not that i say we should block progression but requiring players actually progress in order would be a huge thing imo. Shattered Spent weeks in fear, learning the pulls and the fights before we finally moved into VP, and we had our CT kill within a day of our first VP clear, so while we were one of these guilds, we also hadnt farmed VP to death before taking on CT, (hell we were so undergeared for the CT fight its amazing we beat him the first time around)

I do think that VP is rather easy - the trash it what makes it time consuming, the new pats and such that were set up are awesome btw, it makes pulling and clearing in there, while still a long process for us, MUCH more manageable and fun really.

But i agree with harney and Rugged - thats my point lol.

Yeah, coming straight out of air, VP was the better choice for farming than PoFear. The loot is better off mobs that are probably a bit easier than their PoFear counterparts. I'm not arguing against requiring a CT flag to enter VP, but I think I would rather see some of the mobs beefed up a bit (after all, currently they are easier AND have better loot!).

I did a post a while ago about some of the fights in VP I thought were particularly easy-- this coming from the perspective of 4-boxing in PoAir-ish gear.

Hoshkar was and still is probably one of the bigger push-overs in VP. An easy fix might just be to make him not rooted.

Silverwing seemed good at the time, but I was able to 4-box him in PoAir level gear. I couldn't even box an Avatar in PoAir level gear.

Nexona looks like she should have swarm pets, but I have never seen them during the fight.

Xygoz is, well, Xygoz. Again, making him not rooted might be a step in the right direction.

Druushk is the one that I actually thought was about right. Might just be me, but this was one of the harder fights in VP.

Phara Dar: I've honestly been tempted to go afk for about 13m of her 15m hp. I know this fight was made easier and there's some sections of it which are good imo and gave us a run for our money, but most of it is just looking out the window.

I know devs have other things to worry about, just wanted to toss in my two cents!

Cheers

I killed CT b4 i stepped into VP so im going to consider my opinion a valid one. I do not believe PoFear is Harder than VP, its just more annoying. I think that is what is being confused. Yes I can box fear and yes I can box VP but at this point, isnt that old news? I dont comlpain that a guild Just killed Xegony but has never kill Fennin Ro.

Ill agree that all players should have to kill CT and Phara Dar before being able to attempt DS, but there is going to more raid content released and you cant have your whole server population stuck 4 tiers behind on CT.

Larger Guilds like <Shattered> and <Play Better> have the ranged dps numbers for CT. And CT is pretty much a ranged fight. I had to level 5 rangers get em a bow and some aa to kill CT. So although CT is a fun and challenging fight, It really doesnt make or break a guild as far as talent and gear go.

I know you cant disagree that the difference between have 10 ranged dps to maybe 2-3 determines the actual Difficulty of CT.

I really dont understand what the better geared guilds are scared of, feeling like you worked alot harder because you killed CT before PD? Or Maybe its something else.

I just wanted to make this post to state that not all us better geared guilds want to complain and prevent you from legitimately progressing, killing each boss this game has to offer, even if its not in "the proper order."

Flame at me now if you wish. I feel I am 100% entitled to make this post.

unreel28 wrote:
I just wanted to make this post to state that not all us better geared guilds want to complain and prevent you from legitimately progressing, killing each boss this game has to offer, even if its not in "the proper order."

From Dictionary.com

pro·gres·sion
[pruh-gresh-uhn]
–noun
1. the act of progressing; forward or onward movement.
2. a passing successively from one member of a series to the next; succession; sequence.

That's the point.

We actually killed CT the same night we killed PD, but afterwards so technically we skipped progression by a few hours.

As far as the ranged vs melee point goes ... that's 100% on the rampage mechanic on this server. Change the mechanic so you can ride the edge like in live or kill the ae ramp all together and have 1-4 ramp slots so you're not restricted to ranged dps on certain fights. CT is a perfect example of where keeping that max melee range and then recovering from the knockback ae eliminates the ability to simply send in 10 dps and let them autoattack the mob down.

A ramp list would then actually require management of aggro and at the same time, bring back the viability of pets for pet classes.

If you're able to wade into CT's rampage range as melee dps and simply shrug it off, then you're overgeared for the encounter anyway.

I never said the word Progression, I said Progressing

From Dictionary.com

prog·ress   
[n. prog-res, -ruhs or, especially Brit., proh-gres; v. pruh-gres] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a movement toward a goal or to a further or higher stage: the progress of a student toward a degree.
2.
developmental activity in science, technology, etc., esp. with reference to the commercial opportunities created thereby or to the promotion of the material well-being of the public through the goods, techniques, or facilities created.
3.
advancement in general.
4.
growth or development; continuous improvement: He shows progress in his muscular coordination.
5.
the development of an individual or society in a direction considered more beneficial than and superior to the previous level.
6.
Biology . increasing differentiation and perfection in the course of ontogeny or phylogeny.
7.
forward or onward movement: the progress of the planets.
8.
the forward course of action, events, time, etc.
9.
an official journey or tour, as by a sovereign or dignitary.

Im certainly not here to fight with you Brace, I followed progression, you did not. The point of this thread was to point out guild's like you, skipping CT, Clearing VP, then killing CT with better gear. But what your missing here, is that I was simply stating, that even though this was unintended, I was not against Guilds like you, and that we cant have every guild stuck at CT, because the lack of range, and leave only 2-3 Guilds progressing threw the new content.

So
1. Don't quote me then try to belittle me with a definition
2. Your post had nothing to do with this thread
3. Your Suggestions for CT should be posted in a new thread, and open for discussion

Progression and Progressing are pretty much the same thing bud. Seriously.

Anyways, on to the subject. I have to agree with Harney's suggestion. VP is meant to be the next step after Fear, but as it is most people do indeed go through VP to gear up to finish Fear. Don't get me wrong, I love Fear even though everything sees through my SoS sneakery.

You should have to face the gear check and strategy building required in Fear before being rewarded with access to VP and it's goodies. As it seems to me, VP is a lot easier than Fear and I was always under the assumption progression was supposed to be Fear -> VP -> DS.

Perhaps you could have people do the quest for the Cipher to the Peak, then turn that in to an NPC who will only speak to you after you have the CT Flag. That'd set it right for new comers to the server and guild's already skipping Fear in lieu of VP.

Felibar wrote:
You should have to face the gear check and strategy building required in Fear before being rewarded with access to VP and it's goodies. As it seems to me, VP is a lot easier than Fear and I was always under the assumption progression was supposed to be Fear -> VP -> DS.

This seems very easy for you to suggest as you are one of the Guilds to skip CT, clearly giving you the advantage over other's who progressed the intended way. This is why I dont understand why you are suggesting the change when you yourself did not kill CT before entering VP. This is not a I hate <Shattered> rant at all guys, but you guys took advantage of lets say a "flaw" in the progression line, then your expecting the next line of guilds to not have that advantage. This is Hypocritical. Enough said