Avatars being nerfed

[moordian]

I agree that a gear check mob should be hard. The gateway mob should have a slight chance to 1 round the top gear up to that level. Once you get past the mob each successive attempt should be easier as your tanks get upgrades. Donator gear should not be considered in the tuning process as you can't expect people to spend the $$$.

Yes, you can lose a tank to the RNG from time to time, but it is a game after all and what fun is it if there is no chance of wipe? I'm ok with that and I don't have a bunch of donator gear.

[Rocums]

I agree that there should always be a chance to wipe on progression and even the harder farm mobs, but the wipe shouldn't be an "IWIN" button the mob has. It should be due to a combination of a tough fight and player error.

[Harney]

Harney .... need a tissue? Oh I forgot, the internets is serious business !!

Heart,
Furgis

I'm sorry I'm frustrated for having to beat a mob in a form where everyone else on the server deems to hard, enduring through many wipes that apparently was for nothing, because it was too hard all along. I'll be sure to let your guild get a few tiers up on me, then come to the forums and mock you after the zone gets nerfed and you're upset about it.

On a serious note, it's beatable, plain and simple, non-donator tanks have done the mob, multiple times. Is it a mob where you are taking a big risk if you only use one tank? Absolutely, can you beat the fight 90% of the time if you have 3 tanks? I'd say there's a very good chance. It's in the same boat as Avatar of War pre-Luclin, he raped tanks, it was an endurance fight where you hoped to have enough tanks capable of tanking him to rotate through getting them rezzed and having their disc pop back up. Is it a challenge and is it going to cause any new guild in the zone problems and cause them to be annoyed by the difficulty? Absolutely, that's the point of a gear check mob, once you beat it and start getting Xeg loot, you'll be rewarded for your efforts.

[Rocums]

Harney .... need a tissue? Oh I forgot, the internets is serious business !!

Heart,
Furgis

I'm sorry I'm frustrated for having to beat a mob in a form where everyone else on the server deems to hard, enduring through many wipes that apparently was for nothing, because it was too hard all along. I'll be sure to let your guild get a few tiers up on me, then come to the forums and mock you after the zone gets nerfed and you're upset about it.

On a serious note, it's beatable, plain and simple, non-donator tanks have done the mob, multiple times. Is it a mob where you are taking a big risk if you only use one tank? Absolutely, can you beat the fight 90% of the time if you have 3 tanks? I'd say there's a very good chance. It's in the same boat as Avatar of War pre-Luclin, he raped tanks, it was an endurance fight where you hoped to have enough tanks capable of tanking him to rotate through getting them rezzed and having their disc pop back up. Is it a challenge and is it going to cause any new guild in the zone problems and cause them to be annoyed by the difficulty? Absolutely, that's the point of a gear check mob, once you beat it and start getting Xeg loot, you'll be rewarded for your efforts.

This isn't anything new, content is games often gets re-tuned even if it is "beatable". Sounds like people "lucked" through their first kill, geared in the next tier, and then started killing it again is all.

[Citizen]

Tuning down this encounter takes nothing from Dinodeeps or Evolutions accomplishment.

If I measured myself by my accomplishments compared to others in a EMU Server then I too would probably not want this encounter nerfed.

Heart,
Furgis

[Lillu]

as a matter of fact, knowing that I've beaten an encounter that's been nerfed lateron for being too hard would make me feel even more proud of my accomplishment. but I guess we are all different.

[Ydiss]

Harney .... need a tissue? Oh I forgot, the internets is serious business !!

Heart,
Furgis

I'm sorry I'm frustrated for having to beat a mob in a form where everyone else on the server deems to hard, enduring through many wipes that apparently was for nothing, because it was too hard all along. I'll be sure to let your guild get a few tiers up on me, then come to the forums and mock you after the zone gets nerfed and you're upset about it.

On a serious note, it's beatable, plain and simple, non-donator tanks have done the mob, multiple times. Is it a mob where you are taking a big risk if you only use one tank? Absolutely, can you beat the fight 90% of the time if you have 3 tanks? I'd say there's a very good chance. It's in the same boat as Avatar of War pre-Luclin, he raped tanks, it was an endurance fight where you hoped to have enough tanks capable of tanking him to rotate through getting them rezzed and having their disc pop back up. Is it a challenge and is it going to cause any new guild in the zone problems and cause them to be annoyed by the difficulty? Absolutely, that's the point of a gear check mob, once you beat it and start getting Xeg loot, you'll be rewarded for your efforts.

This isn't anything new, content is games often gets re-tuned even if it is "beatable". Sounds like people "lucked" through their first kill, geared in the next tier, and then started killing it again is all.

This is exactly true and something I've thought about whilst reading this thread.

I don't think it's a valid argument at all, to say "We did it in its tough version so everyone else must do it as well". Tuning an MMO has never worked on that basis and, as much as I respect Harney and the guilds that trail-blaze here, it doesn't come across as very much other than a boast of that power mixed with a little disdain at others who are not as powerful as they. Someone has to do it first...

My friend and I struggled to take out the seb/solb bosses back before they were tuned down; we had to do it the hard way. Now they're easier it would be wrong for me to claim the change was bad because we did it the hard way; they were beatable then and they are beatable now but it's a good change for the server.

Donator gear must be the exception here. It must. Otherwise the server might as well run on subscriptions once you hit raid level, if all the content is to be tuned for balance with donators in mind.

[Rocums]

This is exactly true and something I've thought about whilst reading this thread.

I don't think it's a valid argument at all, to say "We did it in its tough version so everyone else must do it as well". Tuning an MMO has never worked on that basis and, as much as I respect Harney and the guilds that trail-blaze here, it doesn't come across as very much other than a boast of that power mixed with a little disdain at others who are not as powerful as they. Someone has to do it first...

My friend and I struggled to take out the seb/solb bosses back before they were tuned down; we had to do it the hard way. Now they're easier it would be wrong for me to claim the change was bad because we did it the hard way; they were beatable then and they are beatable now but it's a good change for the server.

Donator gear must be the exception here. It must. Otherwise the server might as well run on subscriptions once you hit raid level, if all the content is to be tuned for balance with donators in mind.

To be clear, I don't think the issue hear is donator geard. I think this has to do more with encounter design and Tier gatekeepers. The gate keepers SHOULD be hard, but they also shouldn't be so powerful that they could 1 round a fully geared tank.

[Jeido]

One more post just to clear things up. Harney, Evolution *did not* kill it multiple times post-boost. We had keyed about 9 people, and then a few days later I noticed a patch which boosted their dmg by about 2k EACH and also added flurry. With that atk dmg boost, our next key run was a pain in the *ss due to how hard the mobs hit. I died on 2/4 of the mobs, not due to error on our part but rather due to being 1 rounded.

Keying for Xegony is already frustrating with the 2-3 hour event time to key 3 people, the fact that you also need 2-3 top geared tanks to do it reliably makes it even more.

[Ydiss]

This is exactly true and something I've thought about whilst reading this thread.

I don't think it's a valid argument at all, to say "We did it in its tough version so everyone else must do it as well". Tuning an MMO has never worked on that basis and, as much as I respect Harney and the guilds that trail-blaze here, it doesn't come across as very much other than a boast of that power mixed with a little disdain at others who are not as powerful as they. Someone has to do it first...

My friend and I struggled to take out the seb/solb bosses back before they were tuned down; we had to do it the hard way. Now they're easier it would be wrong for me to claim the change was bad because we did it the hard way; they were beatable then and they are beatable now but it's a good change for the server.

Donator gear must be the exception here. It must. Otherwise the server might as well run on subscriptions once you hit raid level, if all the content is to be tuned for balance with donators in mind.

To be clear, I don't think the issue hear is donator geard. I think this has to do more with encounter design and Tier gatekeepers. The gate keepers SHOULD be hard, but they also shouldn't be so powerful that they could 1 round a fully geared tank.

I get this My last point is added as an after-thought to my main point, which is my belief that MMO content doesn't tend to be balanced around the logic of players, who have experienced the content already, feeling hard-done-by when the content is made easier for everyone else.

The last paragraph is still something I believe to be true, whether directly related to this topic or not and I only mentioned it because I saw some comments about it above.