The Sleeper

[Lillu]

100% agree with you Tankzor. And I think anyone reading your post and seeing the big picture won't blame us for fixing this issue.

Tyler will make the neccessary changes. They will be live from today and will be announced in the update post.

[Lola]

Purpose of THF is not that people give up because they cannot progress more and enjoy their playtime. I will express my point of view as I did immediatly react when Tyler did change respawn.

I understand your concerns, even if I really do not know who could have needed ST dragons Key except Falcore as main. If it was for him, he should be the last Evo main keyed. (But we will still have some alts needing key and will hunt for that).

We could ask GM team for a change on respawn timer which would allow Progeny to get them on your play time i.e on a 36 fix hours respawn timer. So that at least you would get them up on your playtime if they are killed by Evo or other guild running 4pm-10pm EST. Less than that makes non sense, better open ST...
Challenge to enter ST was to get enough members keyed, not to defeat dragons.

As a side note, Evolution was already farming rotting ToV items when I joigned and it lasted at least 3weeks before we entered ST on raid purpose. Chance for us is that we got new members & plenty of alts to equip when it was not 2HS rot drop :p
Are you already bored with ToV after 2 maybe 3 Vulak kills?

But once again, goal is that we all enjoy our playtime, I would agree for a timer respawn
change on "open" mobs. Should not be 24/48/72 but 36 (adding an half day would prevent from timezone perma kill)

Edit: I do not agree on making dragons harder, future guilds won't probably have 2 WW charmed pet as DPS with a huge amount of HP compared to a player/alt box :p

[Jeido]

imo, it's fine as it is. you'll get more challenge in PoF, and in the upcoming Tiers for sure. Besides that, the achievement isnt all about defeating Sleeper, rather the long road to get there..

Not such a long road anymore...

[Tyler]

The artificial time sink has been removed, yes. The dragons you fought were alot easier, though.

Honestly, i don't see the issue really. This game is about fun. It's not fun to wait 2-3 days to even attemp to kill a dragon. We are also not taking away any fun from Evolution who already have their members keyed.

I think it's a fair deal - harder dragons but faster respawn.

[Jeido]

The artificial time sink has been removed, yes. The dragons you fought were alot easier, though.

Honestly, i don't see the issue really. This game is about fun. It's not fun to wait 2-3 days to even attemp to kill a dragon. We are also not taking away any fun from Evolution who already have their members keyed.

I think it's a fair deal - harder dragons but faster respawn.

The issue is that it's being changed for Progeny, but when I said something about it at first then I got shot down immediately. Tankzor makes good points, sure, but don't you think Evolution hit the same road block? It's not easy, we had toV cleared 2-3 weeks before ST was even announced let alone the key dragons.

It really hurt Evo, remember the month of back-gearing we had to do? We grew back as a guild and now we're stronger than ever, but that doesn't change the fact that it nearly killed Evo. You guys did nothing back then, but now that Progeny brings it up then it is changed.

Again, back to Tankzors points, it's not anyone elses fault that Progeny didn't hunt ST dragons sooner. ST dragons have been left basically untouched for the past month and a half, they had PLENTY of time to do it then. Part of running a guild is preparing for the future, and Progeny failed to do that. I don't see why changing something as big as cutting the time to key to tier 3 in half should be done just because their leadership didn't think ahead enough to key for ST before they were actually finished with ToV. God knows I would have if the ST dragons were actually existent at the time.

[Lillu]

imo, it's fine as it is. you'll get more challenge in PoF, and in the upcoming Tiers for sure. Besides that, the achievement isnt all about defeating Sleeper, rather the long road to get there..

Not such a long road anymore...

it still can be a long road if "for some reason" the ST key droppers are perma killed.. I mean they were up yesterday, I fixed them myself.. but then they got killed again.. so yeah, new "short road" still can be long..

[Jeido]

Lillu, we killed them to key our 2 new returning members (Falcore and Rumble). I had been checking the ST dragons for a week and a half prior to this, and they were not up due to that Sontalak bug. I assumed the same as Prog did at the time, that the dragons were being killed and I was just out of luck. Thanks for ignoring my other post, btw.

[Lillu]

Jeido, none ignoring your post, I just reply 1 by 1. so here it goes.

The issue is that it's being changed for Progeny, but when I said something about it at first then I got shot down immediately. Tankzor makes good points, sure, but don't you think Evolution hit the same road block? It's not easy, we had toV cleared 2-3 weeks before ST was even announced let alone the key dragons.

I hope you aren't serious about this. We are changing this cause it is an issue for ANY guild who will raise and progress and who are living in the shadow of other guilds..

It really hurt Evo, remember the month of back-gearing we had to do? We grew back as a guild and now we're stronger than ever, but that doesn't change the fact that it nearly killed Evo. You guys did nothing back then, but now that Progeny brings it up then it is changed.

Again, back to Tankzors points, it's not anyone elses fault that Progeny didn't hunt ST dragons sooner. ST dragons have been left basically untouched for the past month and a half, they had PLENTY of time to do it then. Part of running a guild is preparing for the future, and Progeny failed to do that. I don't see why changing something as big as cutting the time to key to tier 3 in half should be done just because their leadership didn't think ahead enough to key for ST before they were actually finished with ToV. God knows I would have if the ST dragons were actually existent at the time.

I'll be honest. I don't think Evolution got hurt by anything ever. they most of the time have half of the server population, making it possible to raid anything anytime.
when Evo hunted ST dragons, they had no competition. now the respawn time is reduced to half, but the competition is double (or even more.. I mean who killed the ST dragons last night?). with new spawns and competition, it should be pretty much the same to get ST access really.

I'm sorry if you guys feel hurt that we reduce the difficulty here and there, but this is for the benefit of all. and once again, you can't expect us to tune the content and leave it that way till eternity.. the top guild of this server will always have a special situation progression wise. seriously, I don't understand why all the complains. is this really such a big deal? specially that basically nothing changed due to the fact that the timers were reduced, but the competition is double, or in time might get even more?

[TheBloodmoon]

I knew this would be upsetting to you, personally, Jeido. I think you're trying to rationalize why you had a "difficult" time and flex that to fit what other people should experience. Fact of the matter is, reality is different. Progeny has experienced a lot of hard encounters, and will continue to experience hard encounters because you feel that they should be increased in difficulty, leaving us with tackling obstacles that you didn't face your first attempt. And in the same sense, you've also helped to shape some of the encounters that were tuned down, making some of them more attainable for future guilds. Your opinions have led to a lot of changes, including difficulty of PoFire, ST, and ToV. I find it hard to believe that you suddenly feel the dev's don't value your opinion (not that you said this exactly, but you've insinuated as such and I apologize if you feel I put word's in your mouth).

Also, the fact that Progeny "failed to prepare for the future" is due to numerous circumstances, including my co-leader leaving the game, leaving Progeny without a main healer, and another officer to help share the burden of leading a raiding guild. I've also taken on a huge endeavor in RL to further my professional life, lowering my playtime. Progeny is down to a skeleton, truth be told, and we've continued to push forward, until now. No, I haven't farmed Vulak 3 times. I haven't even considered Vulak farm status. But we've cleared ToV for over a month now. Most of the loot either goes to alts, or bots. That's not fun for us anymore, and is downright frustrating and disappointing to most of my members to put time into. All of us in Progeny have a large commitment to our real lives (not saying that no one else does, just putting it into perspective most people can understand) and don't want to spend the 4 hours we can every other day on "nothing".

Listen, no one is undermining the efforts and time you put into it, Jeido. I can only wish that I had the kind of time you do to put into Progeny that you put into Evolution. That includes "preparing for the future" as you put it. But I can't afford that sort of time. I'm not asking for special treatment because you feel like I'm being lazy. I'm asking for consideration toward making the wait time shorter so an already very long road doesn't become longer for guilds like Progeny, and even Relentless Visions when they get to that point. It will still be a month before Progeny even raids ST, with 24 hour respawn timers. We'll still have to defeat the events, and we'll still need 3 groups worth of keys. This hasn't changed the challenge. It just means that we won't be waiting until January of 2010 to actually get to play the game.

Honestly, Jeido, do you really want Progeny to spend 2 months (2 keys every 2 days at best = 1 month minimum to key our raid force ... if we see the key droppers even HALF of that, it'll take us 2 months) competing for the ST keys? How many alts and "old members" will Evolution continue to key before Progeny has a shot at it? Like I said before, "waiting doesn't equal challenge." It just makes it artificially longer.

[Lillu]

Lillu, we killed them to key our 2 new returning members (Falcore and Rumble). I had been checking the ST dragons for a week and a half prior to this, and they were not up due to that Sontalak bug. I assumed the same as Prog did at the time, that the dragons were being killed and I was just out of luck. Thanks for ignoring my other post, btw.

oh and I know why and who killed them, I even gave Rumble his item just because he crashed and couldn't loot it. thats not the point, point is shown above.