Any plans for solo content post 70?

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Lillu
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Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#11 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 am

long post indeed hehe

Thanks for taking the time to post suggestions and sorry if I won't be 100% clear or complete with my response but it's past 3 am, English isn't my native language and lastly this is a way more complex topic than anything to reply or to discuss in a single post. I'll try to respond your post line by line, the best I can.

First of all, please keep in mind that when we talk about balance or changing things, even 1 bit of a zone, it's basically changing more than a year of hard work of many developers to create a perfectly balanced server, based on hundreds of players feedback. So iIt's never as easy as it looks. (new custom server poping on in eqemu offering 150+ levels and stuff while trying to stay balanced always make me smile ;))


Creating new gear for solo players is totally unrelated to the latest raid tier. We can offer more time sink type rewards (e.g. ldon items for more points), we can offer rare world boss loot, we can offer lifetime quest rewards and so on. There is no limit at all, and raid progression is totally irrelevant. Tuning down zones would mean one thing, we would lower the time to get to the top tier, and that wont be our intention for many obvious reasons. (I don't want to reply endless posts why we trivalized the content that others did the hard way..)

ChaosSlayer won't agree with me, but imo increasing level cap is not an option and not needed either. (again, I fail to see the point of the "lvl 150" type servers). This game is about having fun with friends while staying busy with what we do. If you spend this time with quality content (quests, raids, tasks, etc) while having fun, it really doest matter if your highest level is 50 or 150. Not to mention that most of the players rush to the level cap beacuse they simply want to raid and dont care about solo content. Not everyone after the solo play, and we have to keep that in mind too.
Even if we would raise the level cap, it would create a totally new server, kicking us out of balance for something that we can easily cover with other type of solo content.

We do introduce new content to every player, solo and raiders too. Changing/tuning existing zones is not only more work but harder to fit into our actual balance too. If you tune down a zone, you have to tune everything past that zone easier, else the difficulty gap will raise and we'll become unbalanced. So again, creating something new is not only more but easier too.

We always keep in mind that we have solo players. We are trying our best to stay solo friendly (alt-p, 100+ solo task/quests, ldon, tradable raid quality loot, backflag tokens, etc). But while we are trying to make our solo players happy, we have to keep in mind that we have hardcore raiders too who are proud of their achievement of beating each and every raid tiers. I know from experience, that if we would trivalize the access to any of the raid zones (that took weeks for others to get into), it would result in a big drama fest, and I could partially agree with those complaints (You saw this con very well in your post). So trust me, for many reasons, best to offer new content for solo players than twisting the existing raid content.

Lastly, with your logic, there would only be 5 tiers of raid zones all the time. It just won't cut it. We would like to offer a long line of progression, solo and raid aswell.

But again, we constantly keep brainstorming and aiming for the perfectiont to make everyone happy and turn THF into the best custom emu server. :) Thanks again for your suggestions, I didn't mean this as a complete turn down, trust me, we do consider everything, thats why THF is what it is now.

ChaosSlayer
Posts: 1693

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#12 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:44 pm

I just wanted to say that while I did advocated rising level cap many times in the past, as its the only way imo to keep adding solo content, it requires a whole new system of solo vs group vs raid re-balance which can take 6 month or more to review and remake. And during this time the server simply won't playable, cause it would be hideusly out of balance.

If THF would to go such way, this 'design' would have to be applied from day 1 - now its way to late and way to complicated to reshape the system - its posible, but it would be easier to open THF 2.0 server and start from the scratch rather than to try change the current state of things.

I am sure there is a better solution, but it will need some head pouding, and atm I don't see one that we could easily implement, other than offering better gear to solo people via complex and dificult quest/grind/craft system.

I did had an idea to make such zone which would go after PoV/Icewell in dificulty and offer 1st tier raid gear via quest and craft method, but this will take a while to get to work on, as currently i have very little time to do anything outside of my work with Alt-P.
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Insedeel
Posts: 36

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#13 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:51 pm

Lol yea, I completely understand all of the balance work and and what it would take to introduce new and better gear and content for the non raiders out there. I don't know enough about the server obviously and maybe after I get a much better grasp on what the server has to offer and everything, I'll be able to offer a bit more well educated suggestions/feedback on things. Again, thank you both for taking the time to respond to my ramblings!

Progressing through this server seems like it's going to just be an absolute blast.

jsre
Posts: 188

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#14 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:52 pm

70+ levels can still be used to manage solo content without impacting raid.. a quick brainstorm -

Server rules:
Max level from normal xp gain = 70.
Max level = 71+

Zone rules:

Set raid zones max level = 70.
Solo zones = max level 71 plus, see below.

NPC's:
An NPC who sets level to 70.

'Solo zone NPC' who manages 71+ levels - idea is you reach 70, finish some quest.. reward is level 71 and entry to 71+ solo zone. All gear from this zone is minimum level 71 so it loses effect if you delevel (emu should support this, if it's not native then Trevius has some code to manage it).

If you've delveled, this NPC can relevel you depending on which zones you're flagged for.

Mechanics:
Finish the level 71 zone(s), reward = level 72 and entry to next solo zone(s) where minimum level for gear can be 71+ or 72 depending on how you prefer to balance things.. rinse repeat for as many zones as you create.

Once you are flagged for a solo zone, if you have delevelled to raid you can talk to the relevant NPC to be relevelled back to your 'solo' level.

This would prevent solo gear overlapping into raid, though not vice versa (not sure if that's such an issue).

Final thoughts..
A check on player level in the raid zone porting fairies scripts will stop level 71+ people zoning in manually (ideal experience for the 'customer' would be they set you back to 70 and then port ya..!) But to prevent exploits you should probably setup the player script to port you out if level = 71+.. this stops people being rezzed into raid zones at a higher level. There may be a potential issue with people leaving rezzable xp bearing corpses.

Hmm..

Jeido
Posts: 1265

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#15 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:46 pm

jsre wrote:70+ levels can still be used to manage solo content without impacting raid.. a quick brainstorm -

Server rules:
Max level from normal xp gain = 70.
Max level = 71+

Zone rules:

Set raid zones max level = 70.
Solo zones = max level 71 plus, see below.

NPC's:
An NPC who sets level to 70.

'Solo zone NPC' who manages 71+ levels - idea is you reach 70, finish some quest.. reward is level 71 and entry to 71+ solo zone. All gear from this zone is minimum level 71 so it loses effect if you delevel (emu should support this, if it's not native then Trevius has some code to manage it).

If you've delveled, this NPC can relevel you depending on which zones you're flagged for.

Mechanics:
Finish the level 71 zone(s), reward = level 72 and entry to next solo zone(s) where minimum level for gear can be 71+ or 72 depending on how you prefer to balance things.. rinse repeat for as many zones as you create.

Once you are flagged for a solo zone, if you have delevelled to raid you can talk to the relevant NPC to be relevelled back to your 'solo' level.

This would prevent solo gear overlapping into raid, though not vice versa (not sure if that's such an issue).

Final thoughts..
A check on player level in the raid zone porting fairies scripts will stop level 71+ people zoning in manually (ideal experience for the 'customer' would be they set you back to 70 and then port ya..!) But to prevent exploits you should probably setup the player script to port you out if level = 71+.. this stops people being rezzed into raid zones at a higher level. There may be a potential issue with people leaving rezzable xp bearing corpses.

Hmm..


+1, I think this is a terrific idea. I'm mad I didn't think of it way back when Lillu asked me about ideas! It definitely has the potential to be a fun time sink, and could be experienced by everyone...
Jeido, Founder of Evolution

ChaosSlayer
Posts: 1693

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#16 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:30 pm

its sounds kind of like Alt-P but for beyond the normal levels- these zones will be completely cut off from normal world, but its possible to travel there and back.

only downside, that all that new gear will be useless for normal raiding- hence the result of efforts spent to obtain it, could never be applied elsewhere
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User avatar
Lillu
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Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#17 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:34 am

Interesting idea indeed. Keep it going please.

jsre
Posts: 188

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#18 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:40 pm

I can set up an example over the next few weeks if you like.

User avatar
Lillu
Posts: 11301
Contact:

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#19 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:48 pm

Sure, send it by PM to Mikuz please. He's working on solo-content atm.

Thanks!

jsre
Posts: 188

Re: Any plans for solo content post 70?

Post#20 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:53 pm

I wasn't thinking of a written example ;-)

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