Donator Items in General

[Jeido]

Anyways, bottom line is, we got the message and we will take this into account.

I'm satisfied with that. Thank you Tyler.

[Desimus]

Ok so I had to sleep on it a little bit at first. I took a lot of this personal. It seemed a lot like we were being told that the only reason we made it through certain content was because we had donater weapons. When I personally 4 box on raids, I take it as an insult that were blowing through content at incredible speeds and there is no mention of the fact that we have GOOD players in our guild. Maybe that contributes to our success? Exactly.

Second, isn't Evolution at the (current) last tier in the game? I find it interesting that it's said... and I quote "It just seems like with the new donators you're being more leniant than you normally would be, and I worry that it might trivialize what this server is offering. With better weapons, more powerful procs comes much quicker mob fights. With quicker mob fights comes speadier progression through tiers. With that comes a quick means to an end and defeating all raid encounters, being left with nothing."

Please help me to understand here. When you recruit someone to your guild. (Because I honestly could be wrong) Do you inform them that they will have to go through all of the content on their own? so that they can enjoy the progression that the server has to offer? I'm leaning towards no, since I see new characters being pushed through every zone in order to catch them up. Personally, I think that's perfectly fine if people want to raid where you guys are at and completely skip over content that took us weeks of hard work (No we didn't just walk in and everything gasped and died) I'm not complaining. However, I think it is AMAZINGLY hypocritical of you to say that WE are moving so fast and were going to loose members like Evolution did when we get done killing things and yet your new recruits are skipping the things we aren't even able to kill yet?!

My overall beef here is, we do not compete with you and it seems like your unhappy that we are moving through content faster than Evo was able to in the beginning. We never complain that the new clerics / bards / whatever are being offered top tier stuff and that we can't recruit anyone and that it's unfair or what have you (Mainly because it's ridiculous for us to try and dictate how other people are playing the GAME). We look for your support and help. We greatly appreciate your guides and advice (Which also helps us not to wipe 100 times before taking down a mob.. Evolution did not have this I imagine) Evolution is far more experienced with the encounters than we are and we LOVE having your assistance whenever you guys are willing / able to give it. Like Jerant posted in another post, I have grouped with him several times and every time we have had a ball. He has never done anything FOR us, and in fact on several occasions has stated that he would only follow our lead (which is way more fun than being lead with a leash). My point is, were having fun with what we are doing, and if we hit a brick wall... so be it. I have become friends with most of the people in my guild and I know for a fact that many of them would rather re-roll toons and mess around than quit the game when we hit the final mobs. I know this because we spoke about it yesterday

Anyway, sorry for posting again on a subject Tyler has said enough on, but this was my first and only post (I promise!) Now for some breakfast and coffee!!

See you in game!

[Kilmer]

I do get what you're trying to say, but we've had 1 new recruit (to my knowledge, several applications though). Releena went on a shopping spree in ssra and tov. Hardly blasting past content imo.

Not slamming on you, but please check your facts before you start calling someone a hypocrit.

[Desimus]

Fair enough, I had posted that I could indeed be wrong. I guess i'll say it like this then. Since your recruitment is open.. what exactly is it that you do for new recruits? Are they indeed brought to your level? If so then I see no reason to check my facts because this is indeed what a raiding guild that is recruiting does. It makes no sense to say... our recruitment is open, but we won't help you get to where we are because we want you to enjoy the game. The fact of the matter is that your more than willing to do this for new players and that is far more "Overpowered" than any donater weapon will ever be. One recruit or twenty makes no difference, his complaint was that we would blow through content and lose players yet Evolution blows their players through content to get to the final tier so they can raid with them.. How can this possibly NOT be considered hypocritical?? Please provide me with the "facts" that show how saying one thing and helping someone do the complete opposite is not hypocritical.

Ok so it wasn't my only post, hehe

[Lillu]

I'm pretty upset to read this thread. Posts like these generate nothing but drama regardless of the poster intentions - and honestly, I don't think we deserved it. I'll try to be calm and share my opinion without offending anyone, but here we are so I'll try to explain a few things for you, that you might not be aware of and what will hopfully prevent anyone from doing similar posts like this in the future.

So ...
Yes, this is a "non profit" server. I started doing this for fun and because of my passion to EQ. Other devs joined me along the road for the same reason, but honestly, running a server as ours is beyond having just a "hobby". This is pure work. I'm working from 6 hours to 16 hours a day on this - yes, seriously. Still, I'm not hoping for money in return.
This is however just one thing, but running a dedicated eqemu server has costs too: hardware, software, isp, etc ... we have a beast of a server box, which I bought that out of my pocket. Same for the line upgrade or new router. Besides the "one time" costs, it has monthly cost too. I pay that too.

This is why I might feel offended to see this kind of "suggestions" and "considerations" ...
To sum it up, I work and pay for THF, while other devs also put insane lots of work in our server, spending their free time here. Tyler, Striat, Topsy, Koeril, ChaosSlayer.. the list goes on.

Now let's get back to the donator item topic ...

I, for the last time will explain to everyone, that we AREN'T running a shop here. You DO NOT buy weapons or items when donating. You simplyshare the cost of the server. and if you read the above, I hope you can understand why we are pretty grateful for that.
Xebonk got the point.

Also, if donators werent so good there would be no point to purchasing one, its the nature of the beast more or less.

Not more or less, but rather completly and this sadly says everything. Very few player are willing to donate "only" for the benefit of being able to play on this server and to share to overall costs.

While we promised we'll never break the game balance with donator items, we had to get to the point of actually making them (and keep them) the best in game (still not gamebreaking) in order to get any donations at all.

These items are lightyears from being OP or to trivalize the content. We aren't offering 255/18 weapons, so I honestly don't understand why it hurts that we offer this quality of items and that we actually listen to the request for our donators.

So once again, it's OPTIONAL, but if you guys really do enjoy the server and planning on to stay for a while, you have the option to share our costs for the benefit of all of us and for the future of THF ... and yeah, everyone has the possibility to share the server costs (and get a weapon), rather than complain about it.

To close the topic. donator items will stay best ingame, the way we think they are the best. We have no other option, and I'm sad that mature people can't see and understand that.

[Farine]

Thank you Lillu completely agree with everything you posted and again i i love you server and for once in a long long while i enjoy waking up and logging into the game and vent to play with the people i made friends with on your server, and im sure in the near future i will donate to you guys again, for some aug solvents and what not, i enjoy the server and want to keep playing here but at the same time i enjoy the things you have to offer to those who can donate and help the server out.

So my personal thanks to Lillu, Tyler, Striat and the assistant devs for their hardwork and i for one am excited about all the new content and cant wait! Thanks for making eq1 so much fun for me and my friends

[Jeido]

I apologize for this post Lillu, I was going to PM it originally but I thought it deserved community discussion. This server has always had mature players, and I have NEVER seen a post get out of hand like this one did. I did not anticipate half of the replies that were posted, but what's done is done. It shows how people can change when money is involved.

Still, this server is driven by the players. I could have easily PM'd Tyler/Lillu but then none of what was said would have been out in the air. Despite the "drama", I feel it was productive. Now we know the true intention of donator items. I have no problem being wrong, I don't need anything to inflate my ego, I just want to be told I am wrong by the people who actually decide it. So thank you for your posts Tyler/Lillu, and as always I will respect your decisions.

I just want to clear one thing up though, and that is that I am not "bored" with this server. I've been playing here since week 1 of its release and I am enjoying it more than ever. There is so much to do even when you're in the final tier at this point that I will always have things to keep me busy, unless I played hardcore every day. Even if I do run out of things to do one day, the community has always been great and I could help others out. The issue I see you guys having is that you get into a cycle where you raid every day all day and then bam that's gone. It's not easy to transition from hardcore play to casual play, trust me.

One final thing is a response to Nigrog. I just want to say that I have NEVER seen you guys raid, so how can I say whether you suck or if you're good? Have I not been congratulating you for your achievements? Of course raids are easier with donator weapons, I mean your MT has 500 more AC than any other tank on his level could have just because of his donator items. You can't argue this fact, but don't take it to the level where I am saying that's the only reason you're progressing. One man can't get you through all raid mobs, raids are a combined effort. As I said in my original post, the main point of this thread was to shine some light on the grey areas (donator items), and that was accomplished.

[Tyler]

and I have NEVER seen a post get out of hand like this one did.

There was one post that got really out of hand and resulted in the ownly banning ever so far on this forum (and even that i took back after 2 months or so but the player in question never showed up again).

Is it Snowing ?

[Jeido]

lol Tyler. Yes but I am not a drugged up fool posting nonsense : P

[Lillu]

I know this wasn't your intention Jeido, but yeah, we learn every day. for sensitive topics, best thing is to PM the devs, for obvious reason. but whatever should be public will always be discussed pubplicly anyways.

now let's get back to work.. Tyler and I might finalize PoAir tonight.. Warrens is getting ready too as the 1st step of ChaosSlayers uber alternate progression line! and I can tell you that this zone will offer already a LOT, everyone will want to reroll and play a new toon there.. the zone is really polished, professional, full with custom quests and fun oh, and adventure system is really closing to it's release too..

Teaser item from Ldon: http://clone.thehiddenforest.org/item.php?id=11860

Soon..