Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

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Topsy
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Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#21 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:45 pm

I think its a great idea, poor hybrid tanks have been lurking in the dark for to long.

ChaosSlayer
Posts: 1693

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#22 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:30 pm

RE: druids and other healers.

One thing I really liked about EQ2 is that they did away with the holy trinity thing.
All priests class can be potent raid healers, they just use different strategies to do that. And which healer is better, is determined by the specific raid boss you will be fighting against. So yeah, on eq2 you can have a raid boss vs which cleric healing will be almost useless, and druid or shaman healing will be far superior. There is also no CH on eq2 =P
If you want more specifics, you can take a look at eq2 priests heals, how they set up, and how they differ.

The more you tune classes to be universally "the best tank" or the "best healer" , the more you make other classes useless in the face of the high end raiding.
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Zeek
Posts: 3

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#23 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:34 pm

There is also no CH on eq2 =P


Somehow we got way of track here, there was a comparison earlier on in this post about healers but this particular thread is about the tank classes.

My advice would be to drop the mitigation down to 35% with the same reuse timer, I like the idea of making hybrid classes more appealing but warriors have always made the best tank class. Call it something else though, maybe Knights discipline

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Tyler
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Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#24 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:05 pm

Defensive Will will be on the Gloves next reload. Basically the same as the War one but instead of 45 it has 37% mitigation.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

Bomb
Posts: 165

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#25 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:02 am

I know its somewhat of an older topic, but I was wondering why it matters? Is it really that big of a deal if Knights get a defensive here?

As it stands if you look across most of the higher raiding guilds. Progeny, Dinodeeps(whats left?), Fusion, etc etc. Every single guild has upwards to 5 warriors, give or take a few. Each guild has one knight basically.

Though I havent spoke with any of the knights the main higher geared ones ive noticed are probably therion/karhaug. Id be curious to hear their opinions, and any other knights playing at the high end on the tanking level. Im not sure if they just play as dps/support heals or whatever, if they tank or what etc etc.

However I don't understand why there'd be a stink in giving knights a hand when it comes to tanking, allowing players extra options.

Personally I run with myself and another person boxing, we are only to ToV at this point having killed vulak recently so my experience doesn't go much past that. However as much fun as I think it would be to progression tank with a knight for a twist on the ever so exciting warriors do it all setup, its simply not viable.

This isn't live, it seems silly to live by their standards of USE A WARRIOR OR ELSE. We have the opportunity to give more flavor and different setups here, why not take advantage of that?

Why should a warrior feel threatened that some paladin can tank too? Are they threatened by the other warrior in their guild whos interested in tanking as well? Why should the class matter here? Some people enjoy playing something different, but when it comes to progression tanking (from what ive seen) there really is only one choice. A knight just isn't going to match up to double furious / stonewall in oh shit situations.

If we are going to avoid giving knights warrior type discs, which is fine. What are other alternatives to bring knights in line? My best guess is stats, though this could be completely misinformed as I don't really know the differences when push comes to shove. But looking at Therion vs Kiel who I assume are the top two geared of their class currently playing. According to the magelo, Therion is short a whopping 10k hp of Kiel. Is this because Kiel has some sort of innate advantage as a warrior or is he just that much better geared (forgive my ignorance on this part)?

If stats are the same when push comes to shove, and paladins aren't going the route of warrior discs. What other things can be done to bring them on par in regards to tanking?

/walloftextoff
Saril - Zikor - Bomb
<Because We Can>

Mr_Magoo
Posts: 127

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#26 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:29 am

Kiel vs Therion = not good i just did a quick look at magelo and Therion has 1 donator item maybe a couple more i didnt look all that hard vs Kiel im not even going to try to count the donator items.

Anyway some known things on this server for thr knight (shadowknight,paladin)

As we all know paladins get heals and shadowknights get lifetaps with nice aa and focus effect to boost.

They get the extended duration from aa's and add on the ring of destruction from AoW in Kael. (More extended duration items as you move into Sleepers Tomb)

At 65 the paladin Paladin,Shadowknight get Trimdet's Gauntlets of Chivalry or Rayin's Gauntlets of Abhorrence (Increase Melee Mitigation by -37%, Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by -55%) both with a 10 minute recast.

Once you get to Sleepers Tomb and work your way down to the easist warder (Ventani the Warder) knights and warrior get the Ring of the Clawed Guardian (Increase Melee Mitigation by -45% , Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by -55%) 1 hour recast.

Further on down the line once you get a few kills under you belt theres a nice little item quest for the Ring of the Strong (Increase Melee Mitigation by -45% , Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by -55%) 10 min recast.

All in all if you put some time (or money) into the knight classes they seem like they can hold their own pretty close to the warrior later on at high end.

Main thing i see about the knight class is that in order for them to be truly effective as a main tank to compete with warrior is they need played as a single main not boxed where the warrior is more of a click on and box away.

Im sure some more plus notes can be added by a main playing the knight class im just going off of alt experience only geared up to Sleeper Tomb.

Rocums
Posts: 81

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#27 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:09 am

Jeido is probably the best geared non-donor warrior. I would use him as the baseline comparison.

I did count Kiel's donor items once.

As for Knight's tanking, dunno just haven't really tried it.

Ydiss
Posts: 1193

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#28 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:58 am

Our MT is an SK and he doesn't tend to box at all, except when we need extra heals when he'll box a cleric.

We're roughly up to the same level as Bomb and he's managed absolutely fine so far, with the equipment on offer and the clicky in question.

I can see where Harney was coming from and I think the compromise made was a good one. It's not quite as excellent as the warrior disc but it's definitely enough to take on tough mobs. Whether it'll continue to be effective, we'll have to see, but I think Mr_Magoo hit the nail on the head with the comment about SK being played as a main against a warrior being boxed.

So long as the knight is played with the right focus from the player, the other abilities they have make up a lot for the warrior's advanced discs. Rigz, the SK in our group, has plenty of clicks, with very nice LTs that top his health up very well. He's also a 100% agro magnet (not suggesting warriors aren't), allowing me to pound maximum DPS into our targets with three donator rogues with full discs and I never have to micro-manage the agro (unless something's already gone wrong).

I can't speak for paladins as we haven't got one but the SK is a fantastic tank and very capable. I doubt that's reflected fairly by the big guilds having mostly warriors and I think that's mostly down to personal choice as well as the min-max approach most of us tend to adopt with character selection.

In short, until we are unable to down a gear-check mob that our gear checks out on with the SK tanking then I think it's fine as it is. I also see, from Mr_Magoo's post, that our SK has plenty to look forward to in future, as well. We intend to take the SK up as far as we can and look forward to the challenges that might come with it.

Oh and one other thing, having a tank that can FD is also a big bonus for pulling when I cannot be bothered to play the monk.

Rocums
Posts: 81

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#29 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:51 am

Just curious what content you guys are up to now? (edit: NM, reading comprehension fail)

I know that there are encounters beyond ToV that have abilities that would negate SK and Pally effectiveness, but I don't want to really spoil the fun of discovering the encounter.

Also, any event where the incoming damage in one round could kill a paladin/sk outright due to 8% less mitigation would be a place where a Warrior would surely outshine knights. Thinking Wind Avatar here, but we aren't there yet.

Ydiss
Posts: 1193

Re: Knights getting stonewall on the same reuse timer as warrior

Post#30 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:57 pm

We're also leveling up at least two warriors at the same time so it should be fine.

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