The Sleeper

[Jeido]

Your main arguement here is that there's other competition for ST keying, which in reality is not true. Evolution, as I said, hasn't touched ST key dragons for a month-month and a half. The kill we did last night was a once in a blue moon situation, and we do not key alts as much as you think. There's still numerous alts who remain unkeyed, and this is not going to change any time soon. The only reason we took out the dragons last night is because we're doing ST tonight, and I did not want to exclude Rumble/Falcore yet again just because they hadn't had a chance to do ST runs before.

Sure, we might hit them here and there but 90% of the time Progeny will get first dibs on the dragons. RV has 0 chance in hell in taking out any of the dragons, and I do not see this changing anytime soon. No offense to RV, it's just that they're severely undergeared for the task. Based on this, I don't see that arguement as a good enough reason to change respawn timers.

About progeny members not having time, do you think me or other evo members have all the time in the world? For the past month i've been taking 16 college credits and working 15 hours a week. This has hindered my play-time dramatically, but I still do what I can and I keep up our raid schedule. Other members (a few of them actually) have also recently had children and are also really busy. Point is, just because Evo is the top guild doesn't mean we're all individuals who have nothing else to do irl other than playing EQ. We're all normal people, just like you.

Evolution was forced to go from 3 raids a week down to one due to the fact that I am unavailable and that we had nothing to raid (which is the exact same situation Progeny is in now). Part of maintaining a guild is being able to deal with changes, and keep members morale up enough to stick with you through tougher times.



Tankzor, you don't need a lot of time to go kill 4 dragons and you say your guild doesn't get much play time so what's the problem? Knock raids down to once per week until you hit ST, give your guys a break, then if you think it's necessary bring the raids back up to three times. It's all about adapting.

To Lillu, my point is that I have never, ever, seen you succumb to a players request to make raid keying easier despite the after effects. Remember the emp key? That was hell, it took a month or more just to key every member, and farming was BRUTAL. ST keying is much better because you're at least guaranteed 2 keys per run! Progeny complained about Emp keys, evo complained, but you held your ground and I liked that. I am honestly shocked that you're budging on this, because it's not like you at all. You've always said you don't want your server to be too easy or too difficult, but by cutting respawn timers in half you are making it way easier.

[Tyler]

All arguments aside, it's not easier, if anything, it will go faster.

I understand your situation Jeido. Really i do. But i also understand everyone else.

I don't want anyone wait for 1-2 months to get to a new zone just because mobs are not up. That's not good. If you come up with another solution that's good for all parties involved, im all ears.

We made the Dragons considerably harder. They are not the same. In return they spawn twice as often. I think that's a fair change.

Let's see how it's going to work out.

If anyone has constructive ideas, please feel free to post them. The overall arguments have been made clear, though.

[TheBloodmoon]

So you can guarantee to me that you are not competing for ST key dragons? I find that hard to believe Jeido.

And yes, because Progeny has lower play times, we've hit a roadblock. Yes, we're adapting. Yes, we're struggling to complete content at the rate in which Evolution has. Don't think for a minute that you have any right to judge my, or my member's capabilities and my leadership. This is a side of you I don't like Jeido, and is why Progeny was created in the first place. People's experiences are different, and because you've chosen to handle your experience differently doesn't mean all should follow suit.

No, the keying process isn't any easier for us. You may think it is, but in all reality, we'll still raid the mobs as frequently as we would if they were on the same 2 day timer. And now, the mobs are even more difficult, giving us more of a challenge. You do realize that they will be more difficult for us to actually kill, right? The only thing that changes at this very moment is, we have twice as many chances to not be screwed by your members keying their alts. No offense intended to Evolution, or it's members, but I don't want to wait my turn, as it were. That's unfair, and you know it. You may say now that Evolution isn't keying, but I find it hard to believe that you can guarantee that. And I don't think RV is far from where Progeny is in progression thanks to PoFire being a viable alternative to Ssra raid loot, and Kael as well. The only thing that stands in their way, as I see it, is Emp, and it looks to me that they've already starting their keying process. With the member base they have, they have a good shot at running up the ladder quickly. What if another guild sprouts? Should RV and that guild have to wait 3 months fighting over ST key mobs? What about other future guilds? If you think that the high end guilds stop at Progeny, then you are doubting the future of THF, and in my opinion, that's being shortsighted.

You can't expect that no other guilds will find themselves in the same situation down the road. Lillu and Tyler have done a fantastic job creating a difficult progression system. I can only assume they anticipate more players to try and complete it. The idea that the quest is there in the first place means they want people to complete it and follow the progression. It only makes sense to consider future guilds struggling with this bottleneck and accommodate for it. Honestly, had I paid attention to this matter ahead of time, I would have put in for shorter respawn timers before Progeny even considered completing the quest. I should have seen this coming.

[Jeido]

All arguments aside, it's not easier, if anything, it will go faster.

I understand your situation Jeido. Really i do. But i also understand everyone else.

I don't want anyone wait for 1-2 months to get to a new zone just because mobs are not up. That's not good. If you come up with another solution that's good for all parties involved, im all ears.

We made the Dragons considerably harder. They are not the same. In return they spawn twice as often. I think that's a fair change.

Let's see how it's going to work out.

If anyone has constructive ideas, please feel free to post them. The overall arguments have been made clear, though.

[TheBloodmoon]

Yes, I read his post. It was made while I was writing mine. I wouldn't have posted again had I read his first. =P

[Lillu]

to stay on the subject and end this discussion, and for the last time, we had to rethink the respawn time on ST key dragons. not because of Progeny, not because of Evolution and not because of the recent comments (and yeah, I had wrong before, I confess). This change is simply for the future, when we hope we'll have higher population, more racing and competition. If we do change anything like this lateron, well, seeing the recent posts, all can make a guess what drama whould that pull down. we made our decision, because we think is better for the overall population of the server, and because we belive so that this is the right thing to do. both sides are welcome to comment it or express their feelings, but I don't want this discussion to be an endless argument, calling names and to be a source of frustration for anyone.

if anyone (without calling names) seriously think, that making 4 dragons harder (that even before the nerf were only beatable by a whole guild with a minimum of ToV quality gear) while lowering their respawn time made our server content easier, well.. from now on everything seems a pointless argument anyways. this server in 4 months has 4-5 times the content of any other custom server, yet our population is quite low, and thats most probably is because of the fact that our content is HARD. and it's fine as is, we don't mind this, because we want this server to be as it is, but c'mon, we want to complain about our content being too easy now?

last thing to clear out in general, and I think this is more important than the subject itself (and I think I do it for the 10th times now, cause some ppl just don't get it), Tyler and I are building this server cause we love EQ, and we love to create custom content and share it with others. This is our hobby. we do it to see posts as this one. we spend many hours on a daily basis to extend the content and to fine tune it. we do it for free, we share it with you for free. IF we change something, we do it for the benefit for the overal server population. I don't want anyone ever to doubt (or question the reason) regarding our decisions, because thats more than offensive if you consider all of this.

I suggest all of you to stop for a moment, relax, think twice before you post anything, and rather focus on enjoying the server, what it can offer to you, instead of spending time arguing here..

ps. I know, my post should be moved to the Grammar Police forum, so appologize me.

[Jeido]

I think i upgraded the Sleeper abit - melee stats etc. But nothing significant (atk and acc iirc). I'll check into the Aes.

Brutal! Much better, and much closer to the sleeper we all expect to fight We wiped with our half-as*ed raid lol gonna go at it again though now that we know what to expect. We'll see!

edit: dead with 9, verrry interesting though. Having the AE basically unresistable changes things...hehe

[Tyler]

Yea, the AEs are now what they are meant to be. They didn't have any mods before.

[Koeril]

First time around, I was trying to box and I think we wiped because I wasn't paying as much attention to healing as I should have. 2nd time around Hans was ignored by me except for autoattack and epic click so he died early and I pretty much spammed AHL the entire fight ... when defensive dropped it was just ... >_<