I'm considering adding an offtank to my crew.
Right now, I only have 1 war for tanking and it's time to change that.
Is there anyone that can explain me what are the pros and cons of both class (Pal vs Sk) in a raiding party ? Like : is a paladin more usefull cos of his buffs and group healing ? or is a SK more usefull cos he can resists longer with his aggro spell and lifetaps ?
Thanks in advance,
OffTank
Re: OffTank
I use one of each tank class. If I had to do it all over again, I would make WAR my primary tank, as you have done, and SK be my primary offtank.
With all of the spells, debuffs, clickys, discs, AA's, etc., an SK can keep themselves going with self healing just as easily as a paladin can, but Death March IV > Vengeful Retribution IV for DPS boosts along with their ATK taps, so you can put DPS in their group for better buffs than pally affords. SK is a bit smoother because they don't have to target themselves to heal, then retarget mob. If you use macros, sometimes this can bug out on you if your scripts aren't failproof and picture perfect. And by the time you realize it has gone wrong, they may have lost agro before you manually reset their target.
About the only buff a pally can offer is Brell's and Vengeful Retribution... at least, that's the only 2 I've ever bothered casting, but Brell's is available either from Sune arms if you have them, or the fully evolved HoH ring (rank 2)... I think Sune in the forest even gives it ?... So that's kind of obsolete. The SK buffs are not. Also, Brells doesn't stack with the ranger ATK buffs if you have a clicky for that, or actually run a ranger.. ( which I doubt, because rangers are .... ... Oh, Hi Bzgy... no, I wasn't talking about your inability to be useful at all... Don't worry, I still love you.... )
I would say pally probably wins a little with overall ability to keep AE agro, but not by much, especially when you get them a Prism of Shadows from Vistrinda, and as far as single target agro, they both do a great job, especially after you get them a shield of the omniscient / Echo of anger. I can set either my pally or SK to single target agro'ing of a mob, and my entire crew has no issues fully DPS'ing with no worry of stealing agro with just a few seconds head start on my tanks.
Overall, the differences aren't huge or clear cut enough for anyone to say, "Clearly, yes, you need a SK over a pally" (or vice versa)... And if you really like the idea of playing a pally over SK, then it's not like it's not going to be able to fill the role your seeking. And if you donate for your toons at all, the differences are made even less relevant with each peice you get them.
With all of the spells, debuffs, clickys, discs, AA's, etc., an SK can keep themselves going with self healing just as easily as a paladin can, but Death March IV > Vengeful Retribution IV for DPS boosts along with their ATK taps, so you can put DPS in their group for better buffs than pally affords. SK is a bit smoother because they don't have to target themselves to heal, then retarget mob. If you use macros, sometimes this can bug out on you if your scripts aren't failproof and picture perfect. And by the time you realize it has gone wrong, they may have lost agro before you manually reset their target.
About the only buff a pally can offer is Brell's and Vengeful Retribution... at least, that's the only 2 I've ever bothered casting, but Brell's is available either from Sune arms if you have them, or the fully evolved HoH ring (rank 2)... I think Sune in the forest even gives it ?... So that's kind of obsolete. The SK buffs are not. Also, Brells doesn't stack with the ranger ATK buffs if you have a clicky for that, or actually run a ranger.. ( which I doubt, because rangers are .... ... Oh, Hi Bzgy... no, I wasn't talking about your inability to be useful at all... Don't worry, I still love you.... )
I would say pally probably wins a little with overall ability to keep AE agro, but not by much, especially when you get them a Prism of Shadows from Vistrinda, and as far as single target agro, they both do a great job, especially after you get them a shield of the omniscient / Echo of anger. I can set either my pally or SK to single target agro'ing of a mob, and my entire crew has no issues fully DPS'ing with no worry of stealing agro with just a few seconds head start on my tanks.
Overall, the differences aren't huge or clear cut enough for anyone to say, "Clearly, yes, you need a SK over a pally" (or vice versa)... And if you really like the idea of playing a pally over SK, then it's not like it's not going to be able to fill the role your seeking. And if you donate for your toons at all, the differences are made even less relevant with each peice you get them.
~ Xorp MNK ~ Rekk SHD ~ Lixt WAR ~ Slit ROG ~ Lans BER ~ Ripd BST ~
~ Furu BRD ~ Bzgy RNG ~ Fure WIZ ~ Uopo ENC ~ Drel MAG ~ Lour NEC ~
~ Beys CLR ~ Lorr CLR ~ Tinu CLR ~ Yamb SHM ~ Osgy DRU ~ Syyn PAL ~
~ Furu BRD ~ Bzgy RNG ~ Fure WIZ ~ Uopo ENC ~ Drel MAG ~ Lour NEC ~
~ Beys CLR ~ Lorr CLR ~ Tinu CLR ~ Yamb SHM ~ Osgy DRU ~ Syyn PAL ~
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Stickybuds
- Posts: 883
Re: OffTank
I wasnt too found of my SK and i wished he was a warrior instead for the longest time. I have recently come to love him though. While I dont know much about all the specifics on pallys I can tell you the goodies an SK brings.
Lifetaps - they are pretty amazing throw on mooncurse buff for extra crit power and you can keep yourself alive through a lot by using the 3 top lvl lifetaps. The 3 i use are grasp of the reaper rk3, Touch of the devourer, and touch of the draygun. The all use 10sec recast on different timers so you can pretty much always have one ready. Touch of the draygun also gives you a nice buff with 500hp and 15% agro boost, the agro boost stacks with other agro mods and buffs.
Agro - They come with lots of tools for agro, both single target and AE. I am using the dsk3 clicky for echo of anger buff, but before i got that they have Voice of Thule (which you can also cast on others if needed) for extra agro buff, the agro buff from draygun lifetap, + a worn echo of anger and you have a lot of hate generation.
Then you have the AE agro. Casted version of beholders gaze, clicky version from nadox, ToV quest legs, and finally the HoH bp. The HoH bp is very high AE agro with very nice mitigation buff too. The Grasp of the Reaper lifetap also has a chance to proc AE agro.
Death March IV - don't neglect this buff it is 25% dmg mod and it stacks with talisman of might and discs. It also provides another lifetap granted you are not already at the buff proc cap.
Epic 2.0 - This thing is awesome. Fast recast. Turns melee into a healing machine. can be used in place of a disc while changing to the next disc or to heal up through AE dmg.
If you want to take a look at my SK his name is Takin. He doesnt have any donor gear but he can hold agro over wizards and rogues, and I have tanked everything in the game now with him, most without much trouble at all.
His biggest downside is only re-usable def disc is the KD gloves, other than that its the 2 rings which require 1 hour refresh. The Death's Guard disc, even at rk3, doesnt help very much. The Leechcurse disc is nice, but very short. I use to epic 2.0 as a sudo disc to buy time between def discs.
I know pretty much nothing about pallies so someone will have to comment on them, but from my experience with my SK, if you put him with a melee type group they will be very effective.
Lifetaps - they are pretty amazing throw on mooncurse buff for extra crit power and you can keep yourself alive through a lot by using the 3 top lvl lifetaps. The 3 i use are grasp of the reaper rk3, Touch of the devourer, and touch of the draygun. The all use 10sec recast on different timers so you can pretty much always have one ready. Touch of the draygun also gives you a nice buff with 500hp and 15% agro boost, the agro boost stacks with other agro mods and buffs.
Agro - They come with lots of tools for agro, both single target and AE. I am using the dsk3 clicky for echo of anger buff, but before i got that they have Voice of Thule (which you can also cast on others if needed) for extra agro buff, the agro buff from draygun lifetap, + a worn echo of anger and you have a lot of hate generation.
Then you have the AE agro. Casted version of beholders gaze, clicky version from nadox, ToV quest legs, and finally the HoH bp. The HoH bp is very high AE agro with very nice mitigation buff too. The Grasp of the Reaper lifetap also has a chance to proc AE agro.
Death March IV - don't neglect this buff it is 25% dmg mod and it stacks with talisman of might and discs. It also provides another lifetap granted you are not already at the buff proc cap.
Epic 2.0 - This thing is awesome. Fast recast. Turns melee into a healing machine. can be used in place of a disc while changing to the next disc or to heal up through AE dmg.
If you want to take a look at my SK his name is Takin. He doesnt have any donor gear but he can hold agro over wizards and rogues, and I have tanked everything in the game now with him, most without much trouble at all.
His biggest downside is only re-usable def disc is the KD gloves, other than that its the 2 rings which require 1 hour refresh. The Death's Guard disc, even at rk3, doesnt help very much. The Leechcurse disc is nice, but very short. I use to epic 2.0 as a sudo disc to buy time between def discs.
I know pretty much nothing about pallies so someone will have to comment on them, but from my experience with my SK, if you put him with a melee type group they will be very effective.
Re: OffTank
I would have said pally because of its very nice group Healing power, but I don't run one really (though mine is fully flagged and got nice stuff here and there...along with tiers 5 stuff haha) and I don't know much SK so it's best to listen to those who know better 
Re: OffTank
Sian wrote:I would have said pally because of its very nice group Healing power, but I don't run one really (though mine is fully flagged and got nice stuff here and there...along with tiers 5 stuff haha) and I don't know much SK so it's best to listen to those who know better
With that being said, Pally is low maintainance due to the self/group heals, and the AE stun/heal is an agro magnet.
Antihero - Founder of <Dark Redemption>
Dark Redemption....Eating uber guild leftovers since 2010!
Dark Redemption....Eating uber guild leftovers since 2010!
Re: OffTank
The only important thing about a tank is that they are a gnome.
Re: OffTank
Stickybuds wrote:Lifetaps - they are pretty amazing throw on mooncurse buff for extra crit power and you can keep yourself alive through a lot by using the 3 top lvl lifetaps.
Minor nitpick - Moon Curse has no effect on true life taps (Kiss of Life proc is not a true life tap). The heal effect is directly related to the damage dealt, so while Moon Curse offers increased chance for critical heals it does nothing for lifetaps because they aren't classified as heals.
LifetapHeal = LifetapDamage * x
Make the lifetap damage go up and you'll make the heal go up - and honestly this is really good for SKs because there are vastly more damage mods than heal mods. The downside is that lifetaps generate single-target aggro while true heals generate AoE aggro.
/nitpick over
Otherwise Stickybuds is spot on, as usual
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