warrior hate?

[Felibar]

Hmm, not a big fan of the reduced procs per round as my Rogue's weapons had the KoL augs and my offhand has a built in proc to it. Really have no idea how I am going to re-aug now that this change is in effect.

Anyways, thanks devs for the timely addressing and fixing of the bigs. Amazing response time considering you guys just implemented this major code change. Keep up the great work!

[diaylomz]

Yeah i think this whole thing is leaving everybody full of questions as to why you would nerf it so hard. i am a sk.. i have 2 self buff procs, 4 procs on weapon, my epic clicky is a lifetap for weapon dmg proc and death march has kiss of life proc on it. one of my weapon procs btw is the box of silver which effectively gimps me. if you are going to nerf procs so hard you are going to have to come out with augs that are purely dmg with no procs. otherwise aug slots are going to go to waste. i guess i can start slapping stat augs on my weapon for now... and never cast my self buff procs again..

it just seems you built this server for procs to be a huge part of melee. and then you completely flipped it to contradict your augs and items. if you are wondering why people are so outraged it is because you made it seem like the server was one thing then changed it completely for melee.

perhaps people procing tons of times every round of combat was overpowered i don't know... but why does it seem like when devs nerf something(and i don't just mean this server/game) they have 2 speeds.. not at all and balls to the wall? also i just have to say.. did lowering proc rate % ever occur to you? not capping how many procs but if it was 30% and you consider that too high why not nerf it to 15% or 20% but still have no cap on how many procs can go off? i have no idea what the actual rates were obviously. seems like % rate would be a better way to do it than making a cap per round of combat. and if you are gonna cap procs per round of combat dropping it from something like a dozen to 2 seems a bit extreme doesn't it? how about playing with a rate somewhere in the middle instead of just nerfing it to hell?

[striat]

to the best on my knowledge, if weapon has multiple sources of proc, for any given combat round only 1 of them can proc (this includes proc-buffs)
which one gets to proc is believed to be random.

Untrue and also there is quite a bit of radical speculation. Didn't have a chance to post on this earlier (was working on other issues), so here goes:

Each player (and npc) has several chances to proc. Each weapon can have a proc. In addition, each player (or npc!) can have up to 4 buff procs (like vampiric embrace for example), 4 ranged procs, and 4 perma procs.

Do not be too concerned with perma procs--these are really only used for npcs who proc. For example, venril sathir I believe procs a lifetap.

As a player, then, you really can have a wep that procs (copper hammer of striking) and 4 buffs that allow you to proc. This is a total of 5 potential procs right there. In addition, you can have up to 5 (yes, 5), augment procs. This gives you a potential of 10 procs in a single swing.

This was not changed! It is the exact same as before. However, previously, if you double attacked in a round, you would have the chance to proc up to 10 times with EACH swing. This was also a reduced chance, so we haven't even cut the proc rate in half.

One reason I liked the idea of keeping it is because of twin procs. With twin procs, you could have that opportunity to proc more than a single time per swing (for example, your copper hammer could proc Static strike twice in a round). In addition, we would have the opportunity to build on this and add tripleproc and similar down the line. This really allows us to offer a different area of "focus" for melee classes and allows for us to REALLY distinguish between higher end players whereas before, a level 50 may have had the same proc rate as a level 70 and beyond.

[kaelee]

that makes sense and to be honest i havent seen a huge drop either...however the explanation does not explain why warriors needed a hate boost?

[striat]

that makes sense and to be honest i havent seen a huge drop either...however the explanation does not explain why warriors needed a hate boost?

I've already answered this (see second post in thread).

To sum it up, I looked at hate across most classes pre-patch and plotted it out. Post-patch, I used the exact same techniques I had previously used to generate my initial curve. Warriors fell off the grid. Other classes generated a proportionate deduction except warriors. I calculated a value to adjust this issue and submitted my recommendation.

[Rugged]

that makes sense and to be honest i havent seen a huge drop either...however the explanation does not explain why warriors needed a hate boost?

I know you aren't looking forward to a Johny Numbnutz response, but you had to of expected it sooner or later.

As far as I'm concerned Warriors didn't need the boost in aggro either. Granted, Rugged has the same issues as any other warrior out there, but none of them were game breaking. Players work together to ensure victories, and such is the story of EQ. I have never had an issue where a PC stole aggro from me when I did not intend for them to, unless they deliberately attempted to. Furthermore, I really couldn't any care less if my rogue bot does. I'll adjust my gameplay accordingly to persevere.

However, when you consider the roles, duties, and responsibilities of each class, according to what is widely accepted and/or what was originally intended, then yes the warriors deserve that boost in aggro. Consider this, you're a warrior, and you have some decent mitigation and some stellar armor and what-not to fulfill your tanking destiny, but you can't hold aggro when others are inconsiderate of the threat you need to generate before pounding away themselves. Well, that doesn't work now does it?

You however, are a knight class with an array of utilities that you must bend over backwards to use for maintaining aggro, correct? At least you have those at your disposal, because from where I'm standing the warriors resources for generating aggro are sub-par. Yeah, we can taunt, bazu below, spam flurry, this, that and the other, but they don't seem to stand up against a knight class that is seriously trying to steal aggro from you.

Maybe us warriors should petition to ditch our new improved hate buff and a few % of mitigation for some kewl spells, harm touch and LoH abilities so that we're a vital class. Sound fair?


I was being facetious there at the end.

[kaelee]

You just made my point for me Rugged, knights have to bend over backwards with spells clickys and whatnot to steal and hold agro whereas you could be half asleep and hit taunt to take it away. If a non boxed warrior is doing his job a knight should not and almost can not take away agro. Since most of the server is boxed then most warriors arent living up to thier full potential now are they? With the high turnover rate on emu severs, well geared tanks are in short supply end game.

[kaelee]

I've already answered this (see second post in thread).

To sum it up, I looked at hate across most classes pre-patch and plotted it out. Post-patch, I used the exact same techniques I had previously used to generate my initial curve. Warriors fell off the grid. Other classes generated a proportionate deduction except warriors. I calculated a value to adjust this issue and submitted my recommendation.

welll i didnt understand it with your first post. I understand why now

[striat]

I've already answered this (see second post in thread).

To sum it up, I looked at hate across most classes pre-patch and plotted it out. Post-patch, I used the exact same techniques I had previously used to generate my initial curve. Warriors fell off the grid. Other classes generated a proportionate deduction except warriors. I calculated a value to adjust this issue and submitted my recommendation.

welll i didnt understand it with your first post. I understand why now

Boom! Roasted

[Grey]

Knights have it easy in the agro department.