2handers issues

[Jugganot]

Ok you are correct i shouldnt say 2handers are broke i meant the fact that Berserkers still can't keep up with other DPSers. So I guess what i should have said was " Has there been any fixing of the berserker class, whether that be augs or discs etc..?

[Tyler]

The question is, why is a 180/40 weapon worse than 2 60/20 weapons.

Someone post some parses please in the Class Balancing section so we see where Rog/Zerks/Monks stand.

[ChaosSlayer]

cause 60*2=120, *2 again to match the delay, becomes 240

So its 240/40 vs 180/40 - thats INSANE difference in DPS

the math is a bit more complex than that - I posted all my calculations in the previous thread on the subject, but this is the simplified version.
In short- a 2hander needs to have DOUBLE the dmg of 1hander with identical delay.
Note that compare is only relevant when comparing 1h weapons of DW classes.

[Dworkin]

Things are a bit less linear when you take haste into account :

A 60/20 1-hander can be lowered to 60/10 with 100% total haste (delay hard cap used to be 10, but i read somewhere that it's 9 now... any info on that ?) which turns into a dmg/dly ratio of 6. At 70 with all AAs, dual wield/double attack checks are pretty much in the 90-95% range so dual wielding 60/20s yields a total dmg/dly ratio of about 12.

A 180/40 2-hander with capped haste (133 or 135%, not sure here) turns into a delay of 40/(1+1,35)=~17 which yields a ~10,6 dmg/dly ratio
(Note here : some time ago i've parsed a long practice dummy bashing to see how triple attacks does affect 2-handers dps... result was that you can pretty much count like if you had a 100% double attack rate, but not much more)

If you want to compare weaps, don't use anything above 24 delay since from that point on, it's not possible to bring the weapon to the delay hard cap.

Add in procs and dual wielders >> 2-handers dps-wise, with the situational high-DShield-bosses where 2-handers usually shine.... a bit

Damage wise : using <24 delay 2-handers and putting a focus effect on them to offset the difference in number of procs may work, but it'll require quite some fine-tuning.

2-handers should proc approx 2x as hard as 1-handers, so if the 1-hander has a +50% dmg focus (i.e 2x150% proc dmg), the 2-hander should have a +200% dmg focus (1x300% proc dmg.

(NB : don't forget SKs already have +300% dmg on their lifetap procs via AAs)

[ChaosSlayer]

well I wasn't taking haste into account, and to my knowledge lowest delay is 11.

So yes slower weapon gets much higher benefit from haste that a weapon which natural delay low enough not to get full haste benefit.
But when AUGS come into play - the 1h dmg can skyrocket, unless 2handres have their own augs with 2x amount of dmg of them.

As far as procs go - yes slower weapon WILL proc more often - BUT you need to take into account that there is a MAXIMUM number of procs per MINUTE, which are tied to the weapon - so once your weapon has proced X many times- it will STOP procing for some time. I don't knwo hwo EXACTLY this mechanics are working, and what the proc-check intervals are, but this is KLS told me not that long ago.
Which means while your 2hander will proc twice as often, your 2x 1handers will produce twice number of procs over period of 1 minute specially if you have maxed out DEX and things like Weapon Affinity.

To truly counter that, the amount of dmg on the 2h weapon proc needs to be twice as much

[Tyler]

I know the math (well somewhat ) - i was merely trying to point out that a 180 base damage weapon should do a crapton of damage per swing. Imo the real solution would be to modify the 2h weapon damage formula to do alot more damage.

[Taladome]

Not sure if this has been discussed before but I thought of it when I was looking at a few of the 2h weapons in game including epics etc. I remember from live that if a 2h weapon had a low delay that there was a damage penalty which made it hit kinda like a 1handed weapon. I think the magic number was 39 as the monks used to go on about it. Is that enabled or disabled on emu servers etc? Just thought Id ask, I had jericho summon a 49 delay weapon and it seemed to hit about the same as a 35 delay weapon so I really dont know if those magic numbers still exist.

Taladome

[ChaosSlayer]

the damage bonus exists, but its INSIGNIFICANT, specialy with the kind of numbers weapons have on THF.

[Taladome]

Question is, can it be made significant? When I see someone using 1h weapon hitting for the same damage as a 2h weapon it just doesnt feel right.

Taladome

[ChaosSlayer]

its hardcoded, and REALLy doesn't worth the trouble.
If you hiting with 2hander for as much as with 1hander, then your 2hander is simply a crapier weapon - dmg bonus has nothing to do with it, a 25/25 1h and 25/25 2h SUPPOSE to hit for identical damage


and if, say from a same tier/zome you get 1h and 2h with identical ratio, then that 2h needs to be fixed.