Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Tell us what you think!

Poll: You say that this fix is..

Poll ended at Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:54 am

just okay
8
44%
overpowering the pets
0
No votes
could give still more points
2
11%
missing some stats (reply: which?)
1
6%
i would love size decreased instead of increased
5
28%
size matters - make it laaargeeer
2
11%
Total votes: 18

khaliss
Posts: 357

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#21 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:46 pm

You didn't count ramp mobs, which AC helps a LOT. So yeah, you will still be healing less... AND, remember that if your pet has twice the HP, at 50% health, it would have already died prior to this latest change. So, there would have been no pet to heal, right? No pet = no pet dps.

The parse dummies only tell half of the story.
Main: Khaliss
Alts: Khelogg, Khamirr, Khalynn, Khalidd, Khelann

Zilar
Posts: 80

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#22 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:47 pm

Except my pet didnt gain 50% more hp. Stop pulling numbers out of nowhere. You don't play a magician.

Let me explain more. The old pet focus, no matter which focus you had, gave your pet 120% health. The current one with a max 50% focus will add 30% to the previous. This is a poair focus. The epic 1.5 pet, with a pet focus, had 27.5K hp prior to this fix. That means that now, a mage with 1.5 and a 50 pet focus would gain a maximum of 7.5K hp on their pet from this.

Saying it has double the HP as before is just plain wrong. The first step to balancing is having accurate information, and having no basis for your numbers does not help that.
Last edited by Zilar on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Zilar -- 70 Magician <Shattered>

khaliss
Posts: 357

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#23 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:52 pm

I'm sorry I overstated the hp/ac increase lol, my bad (confused 50% increase to 50% total health LOL). I do have a shammy, and I do summon the pet when I'm farming/grinding, or doing minis. The little pup does dish out some damage, but dies too fast... this change also benefits me, but not in the same level as a mage.

-edit-
Lets pull some hard numbers, how much HP/AC does a level 70 mage pet have? Let's assume you have the PoAir (avatar) ring with the true minion focus. Can you calculate the resulting HP/AC & level of your pet... I'd like to see some numbers.
Last edited by khaliss on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Main: Khaliss
Alts: Khelogg, Khamirr, Khalynn, Khalidd, Khelann

Zilar
Posts: 80

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#24 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:04 pm

Read above. However, using a 1.5 pet and assuming you have a poair ring is sort of pointless because by that time you should have a 2.0 pet. The only reason I did it in my example was because I don't have the numbers available for a 2.0 pet. My numbers were just to prove my point, which is that they didn't receive as big of a boost as it seems. A mage with a 1.5 pet is more likely to have a ToV level focus, which tmk is only 30%. That means that, on average, the most HP a mage 1.5 pet would have now is 29500ish. After that, they'd upgrade to 2.0.

I'm not complaining about the HP or AC, that's irrelevant. My only concern is about the DPS, and this thread has gotten soo derailed from that. My fear is that in the future, my dps will not be able to keep up on the DPS ladder because my pet will become less and less effective damage wise. This is why I am proposing better damage scaling through the tiers.
Zilar -- 70 Magician <Shattered>

khaliss
Posts: 357

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#25 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:09 pm

Based on your 27.5K pet with 30% hp increase, that would equate to around 21.2K base (epic 1.5). Multiply that by 50% will net you a pet with close to 32Khp, What about AC? What about pet level?

I can however tell you this... A 32Khp pet vs. a 27Khp pet, add in the AC boost and level increase = huge difference. Your pet will have the staying power in rampaging raid mobs, you will not be spending the same amount of mana healing your pet prior to this change. That means more mana for you to use on nukes, which nets you more damage you dish out over time.

-edit- I posted this before reading your post above. Still.... you get my point, right?

-edit2- I thought balancing is not based on 1.5 toons, that's why all class/balancing parses were done with epic 2.0 toons (see class balancing forum/threads).
Last edited by khaliss on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Main: Khaliss
Alts: Khelogg, Khamirr, Khalynn, Khalidd, Khelann

Zilar
Posts: 80

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#26 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:12 pm

I agree, but I also want to encourage you to relook at page 2 to see Zeiks post. Pet AC was not really increased, if anything it was decreased for ToV level mages.

AC was 120% of normal (now: 100+(power/2)%)


This means that, until you get a 40 pet power item then your pet will have less AC than it did before the patch. I don't think this is a problem, because I haven't ever had a problem with my pets AC. I only point it out because you're basing half of your argument on a pet AC increase which does not exist until tier 5. Even at tier 5 it's only a minor boost.
Zilar -- 70 Magician <Shattered>

khaliss
Posts: 357

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#27 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:16 pm

Zilar, read my -edit2- above. Most of the parses that I saw on the class balancing threads are with toons that have epic 2.8 (poair aug) & at least Tier4/5 geared.
Main: Khaliss
Alts: Khelogg, Khamirr, Khalynn, Khalidd, Khelann

Zilar
Posts: 80

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#28 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:23 pm

I read that, and I am aware of that. I may not be a PoAir mage yet, but I can certainly think ahead and make sure that when I do eventually get there I will be able to keep up with other classes. I haven't said anywhere in any of my posts about having a problem with my mage currently, all of my posts reference what will happen in tier 3, 4, 5, etc.

Also, if you noticed, Zalux's parses were a bit disappointing. According to Tyler's post earlier today, mages should be fairly high up on the dps ladder. Zalux is poair geared, 2.0 etc, and is still 1k-2k DPS behind other classes.
Zilar -- 70 Magician <Shattered>

khaliss
Posts: 357

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#29 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:28 pm

Which classes are ahead? Wizards... wizards should always be on top of the food chain when it comes to burst damage (not overtime) cuz that's all they have. They are glass cannons, they got nothing else they can offer. Mages on the hand can solo effectively, have more utility (CoH, rods, etc), and more desirable if played right. I can tell you how much we love to have Zalux in our raids than the usual dps classes. He is well aware of that too I'm sure.
Main: Khaliss
Alts: Khelogg, Khamirr, Khalynn, Khalidd, Khelann

Zilar
Posts: 80

Re: Pet owners and pet power focus effects

Post#30 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:36 pm

Tyler wrote:
Short Term (less than 3 mins)
100% Wizards
095% Mages / Necros / Zerkers
093% Rogues
090% Monk

Long Term (min 10 minutes)
100% Rogues
097% Zerkers/Necros
095% Wiz/Mages
090% Monks/Rangers
085% Warriors
080% Beastlords/Knights/Bards



Right now:
Tyler wrote:Wizards
Average Self buff DPS: 6661.4 DPS
Average Raid situation DPS: 6951.6 DPS
10 Mins fight: 5289 DPS

Rogues
Without Buffs : 4000
With Sune Buffs: 5500

Zerkers
Top geared
Sune buffs 3500
Sune Buffs & Discs 6550

Monks

3400 DPS with sune buffs
3700 DPS with Panther
5500 DPS with Innerflame (no Panther)

Rangers
89/20 Donator and 72/20 Offhand

3960 DPS with Self and Shaman buffs, non disc , melee

Warriors
Sune Buffs only 3700 DPS



Now, here is Zalux:


Jameus wrote:Updated parse using Thunder of Ice with Raging servant over and over and over. Used the clicky on my ToV robe 2x along with Frenzied Burnout to increase pet dps. Pet was also attacking from the back this time which seemed to increase his dps!

Vlad on 6/7/2010 in 363sec

Total
--- DMG: 1346499 (100%) @ 3709 dps (3709 sdps)

Zalux
--- DMG: 764164 (56.75%) @ 2105 dps (2105 sdps)

Genantik
--- DMG: 582335 (43.25%) @ 1613 dps (1604 sdps)

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3




Basically, every dps class out dmgs him. A monk who uses no discs does equal dps, a ranger with no discs out damages him, and a warrior who doesn't use a dps disc does equal damage. Need I say more?
Zilar -- 70 Magician <Shattered>

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