Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Explanations please - no flames
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Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#21 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:47 am

Give me spell ideas - i never played SK/PAL so im not sure what makes you people hot ;)

I want one to be available at 60,69 each and then raid upgrades etc.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

Relnon
Posts: 142

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#22 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:02 pm

I mentioned the partial leechcurse buff for SKs earlier, but I'm honestly not sure whether its possible with the current leechcurse code.

SK:

Cloak of Akheva/Discord/Death - AC/HP buff with 5/10/15% (lvl60/69/raid) leechcurse. Also increases minimum damage modifer (I'm not sure what values for this would be adequate).

Pact of Hate/Decay/Death (Our Currently useless mana regen buff) Decrease hitpoints by 30/40/50 per tick and increases the Shadowknight's damage by 4/8/12 percent.

Rune of Hate/Decay/Death (Pet haste line) Increases melee haste by 60/65/70 percent, increases damage modifier by 5/10/15 percent, and gives the pet a chance to proc Zevfeer's Bite/Inruku's Bite/Ancient: Bite of Muram (The SK's hp/mana drain that hits the whole group, this makes the pet's lifetaps meaningful).

I could throw some more ideas at you if you like, but its about time for me to do that sleep thing I've heard so much about.

Harney
Posts: 333

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#23 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:20 pm

I disagree completely with giving paladins any mitigation / defensive tanking abilities over shadowknights. They are both knights, they are both suppose to tank equally, shadowknights always specialized in single target aggro while paladins specialized in ae aggro. Shadowknights heal themselves with taps, paladins do it with direct heals, neither are meant to tank better than the other. If you give either knight class a mitigation boost at all, they're going to be at the warrior level or above them.

As Tyler said, this change was for DPS only, if you don't want dps then don't cast the buff, it wasn't a "please give sk dps and then whatever a paladin wants because he isn't happy with a dps boost"
Harney

Relnon
Posts: 142

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#24 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:27 pm

Harney wrote:I disagree completely with giving paladins any mitigation / defensive tanking abilities over shadowknights. They are both knights, they are both suppose to tank equally, shadowknights always specialized in single target aggro while paladins specialized in ae aggro.


I would have to say that if anything, SKs specialized in AE agro and paladins specialized in single target agro. Paladins held single target agro with their single target stuns, SKs held AE agro with Dread Gaze and its eventual upgrades.

Also, alot of people would argue that between the two knights, SKs are the more agressive damage oriented class, while Paladins are more defensively oriented.

Hopefully, other knights will speak up on their what their class vision is for these two classes.

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Nexor
Posts: 495

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#25 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:39 pm

I need to agree with Harney kinda as a Paladin however i see my role more as a Tank than a dps.

Regarding Who did what Paladin used Group heals to get AE agro.

And regarding idea for DPS boost ...

Not sure if its possible but what about something like a Avatar spell and no i dont mean Shaman line just something that is a Illusion and emulates dual wield to a extend.

What i mean with emulates that during the time the buff runs we have have a fake weapon in the offhand that has a set dmg/dly.

And both knight types have a different Illusion.

Pro it will help with DPS
Con you will mostly eat more riposte dmg.

The con dont realy matter since its a buff it can be canceld.

On a side note could also maybe check into the Spell section and look into the True Command post wich is a Paladin spell but might can affect SK possible too .
Team Nexor

Fexor - Fexxor - Nexxor - Nexia - Nexxia - Nexis - Nexxis - Gnex

User avatar
Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#26 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:42 pm

Sks get direct AE agro spells while Paladins get indirect ae Agro (group heal) spells.

One knight shouldn't tank better than the other.

Imo SK should do more DPS since Paladins can heal the group,single target better.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

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Nexor
Posts: 495

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#27 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:56 pm

Actualy while thinking about it as another option just try find a way to boost SK and let there be some more undead content for Paladins :)
I mean Paladin only time to shine with DPS was if there where encounters that had Undeads.
And currently there is not much undead content that is worthwhile atleast not in the 70+ range the 2 Rhags + Arch Lich in Ssra as bosses than i am sure PoF and i hope Dracoliche is considered as undead (didn't do PoF yet).

Than as lvl 70+ xp content to a extend PoV / SSRA basement if you have lots of times lvl 55 undeads in Umbral .... but thats all that i can think about atm.
Team Nexor

Fexor - Fexxor - Nexxor - Nexia - Nexxia - Nexis - Nexxis - Gnex

Venge
Posts: 33

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#28 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:04 pm

My vote is to boost sk dps and leave the Pal dps alone. We dont need more buffs / agro spells / anything dealing with Buffs. We are fine the way we are as a tank. I've played with both classes over the years and found that SK > Pal as far as dps goes. If anything you do to the Pal class I plea with you don't add anymore buffs that take up buff slots. I am one who at the highest raiding levels and don't use any Dps buffs because all the buffs I have on myself are for Def. and Agro. You have fixed Pal single target agro with the single target spell that drops in PoStorm. We no longer get agro ripped off. Nothing more needs to be done other then maybe a boost to AC. Nothing more then that. Pal's class again is a support tank class who is not the best tank but can keep agro off everyone and out last sk / war in a self relying fight.

Leoben
Posts: 30

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#29 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:37 pm

If only 20-40 DPS was added with this proc, then I'm going to have to say that it's not effective enough to utilize one of our precious buff slots. Also given that procs only go off occasionally, this isn't going to add steady DPS (which is the problem here).

Other people have already voiced concern with the slot issue.

Paladins are able to gain hate by group healing, SK are able to gain hate from their AE Jolt line. We don't need something to affect the hate [other than DPS], especially since this was addressed and hate output was greatly increased.

So here's what I can propose for Shadowknights, and I'll base them off of existing spells:
1) Increase minimum damage from 1 to 250+
2) Increase weapon caps from 280 to 310. My offensive is at 240/240, also.
3) Level 16 spell: Grim Aura. Add 70 version to increases ATK for 60:00, adds a proc for ~400 + hate.
4) Level 70 spell: Cloak of Discord. Increase AC, DS, HP-- scale it as Relnon said, 5/10/15%. Add a leechcurse, and increase weapon skills +5/10/15%. Include the effects of spells Shroud of Discord (increase lifetap proc- current sucks) and Black Shroud (ramp mana on this a little). Make this the SK "buff"
5) Level 70 spell: Pact of Decay (Skel Illusion). Doesn't stack with Sune. Could add ATK at cost of life.
6) Level 65 spells: Mental Horror and Black Shroud have same effect, but I can't tell which is more powerful. Get rid of both and add effects to Cloak of Discord to solve.
7) Banshee Aura III - Increase time on buff, better off w/ ring clicky than this.

It all boils down to weapon skills, ATK rating, and the buffs to fix these. My numbers might OP SK, as the results/change SHOULD be surprising at first. It'll just require a little tinkering.

And I felt as though I should focus on SK, because I haven't played a PAL on this server--- but know that they deserve the same respect and focus as SK on this matter.

Thanks a bunch, Tyler. ♥

User avatar
Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: Sk / Pal DPS proposal

Post#30 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:41 pm

It's about 500 dps that was added. That means that Pal do about 1300 DPS, SK will be higher.

I consider this to be ok for Knights.

Let's work on the other issues.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

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