I understand.. there has been alot of time spent on this server and people love it including myself.
But it doesnt take a genius to see the power of the stat AC and who can get it.
A non-wizard caster on this server will do maby...maby %50 to %100 more damge than your AC player BL/WAR/BRD/SK/PAL/MNK/BER/ROG
While those same non-wiz casters will recieve %1000 (thats 10x) more dmg from the same mobs in upper end zones.
Somthing is off... big time.... if the answer is "yea we know this is an issue but the mechanics are too firmly in place to make a change" then fine.. just admit that non-wiz casters are WAY underpowered..
IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT TIER GEAR everyone scales
and nerva thanks for all the constant constructive critasism (sp) but this is still an issue
Ill just play a SK
instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical answe
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ChaosSlayer
- Posts: 1693
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
its a common trend with Emu - melees benefit from uber gear a lot more than casters do.
You need to rebalanced entire server to get it just right.
And you will have to shut down the server for testing for a good month or so.
Its not a trivial thing to do, and not an easy one
You need to rebalanced entire server to get it just right.
And you will have to shut down the server for testing for a good month or so.
Its not a trivial thing to do, and not an easy one
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
ok thank you for reponsce (sp)
how about caster focus lok more like "adds 400% dmg" instead of currently giving everything the same focus'es
how about caster focus lok more like "adds 400% dmg" instead of currently giving everything the same focus'es
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
Look, I'll be the first to admit that AC is a strong stat, and those with the best ability to stack it will have the best solo capability long-term. My pet basically caps out around 5k AC, and doesn't get the defensive discs and AAs and other forms of mitigation that true tanks get, so that basically limits my soloing to T1, T2, and T4 trash; the weakest of the weak, as far as raid-trash goes.
The thing is, Everquest was never really designed to be a game for soloers. And that's as true here as it is on any server that isn't redesigned from the ground up. There will always, always come a point where post-70 content will no longer be soloable; some classes, particularly clothies, will hit that point earlier. Others, particularly plate classes, will hit that point later due to their smoother gear scaling curves.
This is why box teams remain so prevalent despite the increase in population. A bot can only do so much; there comes a point where you will outright need the help of another player to progress. Clothies in particular were designed to be inherently reliant upon heavier-armored classes for their survival. This is true of wizards more than anyone - their ability to outright one-shot some trash and rip multiple percentage points off a raidboss in a single round of spells is balanced by the fact that anything that survives that onslaught long enough to launch an attack will outright splatter them. It is the only way to balance them. Necros are in the same boat, really, the only difference being that we deal our damage more gradually (it takes about eighteen seconds for a boss to go "hey, where'd my HP go?" instead of instantly like a wizard) and we have a pet to (kinda) hold off things that do get past the tanks.
The single greatest thing the server could do to help clothie survivability is to smooth out the pet system for all pet using classes, and ensure that each one has a pet that remains useful throughout their life, even in post-70 content. Right now, each one has a point where their primary pet "caps out" and stops being useful, and for magicians in particular, they lose a good half to 2/3rds of their functionality as a viable raiding class at that point.
I'll admit you have a point: you can potentially, eventually kill any mob that doesn't heal itself with a heavily armored class, if you can get heavily armored enough that the mob can't hurt you. So the solution isn't to further widen the DPS gap between squishies and tanks. That just worsens the problem, because squishies either totally eliminate the need for tanks on trash (LOL BOOM ONESHOT!), or they generate so much aggro that the tanks can't hold the mobs and the squishies die even harder.
It's to give squishies a means of taking hits or avoiding hits; this generally means pets. Give pets inadequate aggro holding ability, so that the DPSer has to pace himself if working with a pet instead of a real tank, and can't just go balls-out full-nuke on enemies with impunity. This brings squishy DPS down on par with tanker DPS, and if the pet is survivable enough, it brings squishy survivability in solo up to tanker survivability, while still preserving the class's unique traits in a group environment.
The thing is, Everquest was never really designed to be a game for soloers. And that's as true here as it is on any server that isn't redesigned from the ground up. There will always, always come a point where post-70 content will no longer be soloable; some classes, particularly clothies, will hit that point earlier. Others, particularly plate classes, will hit that point later due to their smoother gear scaling curves.
This is why box teams remain so prevalent despite the increase in population. A bot can only do so much; there comes a point where you will outright need the help of another player to progress. Clothies in particular were designed to be inherently reliant upon heavier-armored classes for their survival. This is true of wizards more than anyone - their ability to outright one-shot some trash and rip multiple percentage points off a raidboss in a single round of spells is balanced by the fact that anything that survives that onslaught long enough to launch an attack will outright splatter them. It is the only way to balance them. Necros are in the same boat, really, the only difference being that we deal our damage more gradually (it takes about eighteen seconds for a boss to go "hey, where'd my HP go?" instead of instantly like a wizard) and we have a pet to (kinda) hold off things that do get past the tanks.
The single greatest thing the server could do to help clothie survivability is to smooth out the pet system for all pet using classes, and ensure that each one has a pet that remains useful throughout their life, even in post-70 content. Right now, each one has a point where their primary pet "caps out" and stops being useful, and for magicians in particular, they lose a good half to 2/3rds of their functionality as a viable raiding class at that point.
I'll admit you have a point: you can potentially, eventually kill any mob that doesn't heal itself with a heavily armored class, if you can get heavily armored enough that the mob can't hurt you. So the solution isn't to further widen the DPS gap between squishies and tanks. That just worsens the problem, because squishies either totally eliminate the need for tanks on trash (LOL BOOM ONESHOT!), or they generate so much aggro that the tanks can't hold the mobs and the squishies die even harder.
It's to give squishies a means of taking hits or avoiding hits; this generally means pets. Give pets inadequate aggro holding ability, so that the DPSer has to pace himself if working with a pet instead of a real tank, and can't just go balls-out full-nuke on enemies with impunity. This brings squishy DPS down on par with tanker DPS, and if the pet is survivable enough, it brings squishy survivability in solo up to tanker survivability, while still preserving the class's unique traits in a group environment.
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ChaosSlayer
- Posts: 1693
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
I offered an easy solution 2 years back - cut dmg on all melee weapons by 50%...
...Barely escaped being burred alive
...Barely escaped being burred alive
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
Nerva i knew I liked you...
he's totally right, clothies should get trashed in 1 to 2 rounds (thats 3 to 6 seconds) vs a T3+ mob.. as long as they have a way to midagate (sp) that dmg in the form of a pet.
Thats how it was intended.
Fast foward to current day THF mobs hittings for 4 5 6 K on pets..
Im not asking for pets that do as much dmg as deticated melee classes.. I just need somthing that can tank long enough for me to drop my dots/nukes/healss
I'd like to see a caster solo T3+ content like a Sk or PAL or insert high AC class here... its a big balance problem and it is because of hows AC scales
he's totally right, clothies should get trashed in 1 to 2 rounds (thats 3 to 6 seconds) vs a T3+ mob.. as long as they have a way to midagate (sp) that dmg in the form of a pet.
Thats how it was intended.
Fast foward to current day THF mobs hittings for 4 5 6 K on pets..
Im not asking for pets that do as much dmg as deticated melee classes.. I just need somthing that can tank long enough for me to drop my dots/nukes/healss
I'd like to see a caster solo T3+ content like a Sk or PAL or insert high AC class here... its a big balance problem and it is because of hows AC scales
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
ChaosSlayer wrote:I offered an easy solution 2 years back - cut dmg on all melee weapons by 50%...
...Barely escaped being burred alive
hah thats funny because I offered the same solution and the GMS closed the forum...
conspiricy?
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ChaosSlayer
- Posts: 1693
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
scibby wrote:ChaosSlayer wrote:I offered an easy solution 2 years back - cut dmg on all melee weapons by 50%...
...Barely escaped being burred alive
hah thats funny because I offered the same solution and the GMS closed the forum...
conspiricy?
they were simply trying to save you from the angry mob of melee classes
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
shamless bump.. tell mehow i am wrong
Re: instead of locking this tread can i just get a logical a
the problem is...
look at 2 classes.. for the sake of this augument we will say hmmmm ranger vs necro..
t8 both
who doe you think has the best chance of running throught zones... t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 -----ranger!
why is that? who does more dmg..... necro <----
but who can midagate (sp) much much more dmg compared to dps output -----ranger
or insent AC class here
the stats speak.. no scream for them selves..just come out and say that anyomr who doesnt rely on AC just wasted their time....
better yet make a disclaimer at class creation
look at 2 classes.. for the sake of this augument we will say hmmmm ranger vs necro..
t8 both
who doe you think has the best chance of running throught zones... t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 -----ranger!
why is that? who does more dmg..... necro <----
but who can midagate (sp) much much more dmg compared to dps output -----ranger
or insent AC class here
the stats speak.. no scream for them selves..just come out and say that anyomr who doesnt rely on AC just wasted their time....
better yet make a disclaimer at class creation
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