The Sleeper
Re: The Sleeper
Good points on both sides, but please keep in mind, if we come out with "woah!" upgrades in every neq tier/zones.. we become a SoA like totally unbalanced server, having 40K hp tanks in 2 weeks. it's a dead end in long term, so we have to keep the updates controlled and make em smart.. at least Tyler is trying his best, that I know.
Re: The Sleeper
On notes of ST, some mobs are slowable and I was utilizing Requiem of Time http://thehiddenforest.dyndns.org/spell.php?id=3066 to preslow on pull so they're a little less of a pain on engage.
Worked good except that a lot of mobs as you get deeper in have an aggro radius larger than 150m range. The Warders were a good example. It got almost impossible when you combined the fact their hitbox were like the same radius too it seemed! Hehe.
In some cases, even lull was having range issues: http://thehiddenforest.dyndns.org/spell.php?id=3361, (200m range) but it was actually possible to lull, as long as a SoS rogue would open the door so I could target them before they aggro'd through wall.
Just to pass it by, any chance to make requiem of time instead of 150m to 200m for simple fact aggro radius is so huge here? Heh. Slow is limited use anyways.
Otherwise, pulling was pretty good, simple.. Most Hateful keep up to their name, but nothing unbearable.
There was also 1 Ancient Wyvern that was half-stuck in a wall.. you couldn't cast LoS spells on it, and his radius aggro was a bit whacked from the stuck in wall issue too. I wish I would have /loc'd near him so it's easy to go check, but.. I didn't. Next time we clear Sleepers I may note it, as a quick GM #spawnfix would resolve it. Otherwise, every mob location wise was great.
Worked good except that a lot of mobs as you get deeper in have an aggro radius larger than 150m range. The Warders were a good example. It got almost impossible when you combined the fact their hitbox were like the same radius too it seemed! Hehe.
In some cases, even lull was having range issues: http://thehiddenforest.dyndns.org/spell.php?id=3361, (200m range) but it was actually possible to lull, as long as a SoS rogue would open the door so I could target them before they aggro'd through wall.
Just to pass it by, any chance to make requiem of time instead of 150m to 200m for simple fact aggro radius is so huge here? Heh. Slow is limited use anyways.
Otherwise, pulling was pretty good, simple.. Most Hateful keep up to their name, but nothing unbearable.
There was also 1 Ancient Wyvern that was half-stuck in a wall.. you couldn't cast LoS spells on it, and his radius aggro was a bit whacked from the stuck in wall issue too. I wish I would have /loc'd near him so it's easy to go check, but.. I didn't. Next time we clear Sleepers I may note it, as a quick GM #spawnfix would resolve it. Otherwise, every mob location wise was great.
Re: The Sleeper
Jeido wrote:Yeah I have to agree with you Jerant, but there will always be armor that you won't want to lose.
Lillu wrote:Good points on both sides, but please keep in mind, if we come out with "woah!" upgrades in every neq tier/zones.. we become a SoA like totally unbalanced server, having 40K hp tanks in 2 weeks. it's a dead end in long term, so we have to keep the updates controlled and make em smart.. at least Tyler is trying his best, that I know.
Oh, I understand - not complaining. I'm perfectly happy with the ToV set. The shield falls into the category you mentioned, but I felt that if an entire set of next-tier armor does that, it is worth mentioning. That's how I started the post and then I included the shields as another example. I wasn't going to post anything at all until Tyler asked.
Heck, I just discovered last night that I can duo with a Rogue tank in ETov without ToV armor (well, he has arms). Sure I was AHL-spamming the entire time (I have more mana that your average cleric) and getting whacked down to 20% in some rounds from full hp, but what this means is that the armors/items we're getting from raids seem to be appropriate in my opinion and not overpowered. ST items are more of the same (with the exception of the plate/chain armor set in my opinion). It might even be a bit much for a chain DPS class to have the AC/hp of a plate class.
I appreciate all you guys are doing - it has been a marvelous job and there are always things that will slip through - so if I find something I post. This is by far the best mix of a challenging/easy server I've found yet.
Re: The Sleeper
Just want to say -- ouch!! hrm...well first attempt didn't go so well (only got him to 88%). He seems too tough for the loots he gives. Wtb boosts on the loots at least :\ they're the same as every other ST item. Oh and also, theirs sooo many cleave items in ST. can you make a few custom foci for melee? maybe ones that have a chance to proc a buff when hit and/or when you hit, etc
Jeido, Founder of Evolution
Re: The Sleeper
Sleeper down -- So about the loot again. I didn't notice it had 2 type 8 slots, if that's true for all the loots then nvm I take back what I said before! Two slots make the items very desirable....
Jeido, Founder of Evolution
Re: The Sleeper
Grats for dead sleeper and yes, all Boss encounters from now on will drop loots with 2 aug slots.
About Cleave - i'll check that out.
About Cleave - i'll check that out.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Re: The Sleeper
I bump this topic because I have a feeling regarding how it was long time consuming (but interesting) getting a full raid force into ST.
I talk on my caster point of view, not sure other classes love the ST gear.
Fact is PoF is an open zone, where Cloth ARMOR stuff is better stats & effects than ST.
All people who wants 2.0 will need ST keys but Zone in will be enough, maybe they will go through the zone to get draconides & 2.5 but maybe in a few custom zone, we will maybe have better weap than epics (do not know the plan on future epics developpement).
Fact is ST gear can already be replaced by PoF gear and I feel bad about that compared to difficulties to get in ST and get the gear. (Not so difficult for me as I got all first cloth items)
Suggestion:
Maybe all ST gear could have a second Aug slot, it could be ST aug mandatory for this second slot in addition the actual slot 8. Not sure it could be done by programming or setting ST aug on a particular aug type: means ST aug on ST gear.
To avoid public vindict, you could also add type 8 aug in PoF which are close to ST augs to plug on PoF items (with only 1 aug slot) except Fennin.
I really loved discovering ST and I would be really sad to replace 80% of the gear I got from by the PoF one so quickly and without so much pain (it is actually tested and re-adjusted so i do not tell PoF is cake but needs less time to get in). I agree that there will still the better actual caster item in ST (Thanks again Tyler).
In conclusion, I do not care if in the near future people skip ST for PoF, but I would appreciate that all efforts that are put into ST raids could have the appropriate reward.
On a side note, some "chaotic" casters effects can be obtained from Boss drops (not TS armor) so PoF Back/Waist/shoulder items for example would still be interesting for a ST geared caster which keep benefits from Warders kills with 2 slot augs items.
Hope some peeps will understand my point, meaning that on a certain point of view ST gear is better that PoF TS armor in terms of stats (if we add a second aug slot), which requier more effort to get in and raid. This is also in line with Lillu's statement saying that we cannot add powerfull item in every new zone or we will finish as a SoA server. ST could be skipped but at least give lots of benefits for people who put effort into compared to T4/T4bis PoF/PoA.
Loly.
I talk on my caster point of view, not sure other classes love the ST gear.
Fact is PoF is an open zone, where Cloth ARMOR stuff is better stats & effects than ST.
All people who wants 2.0 will need ST keys but Zone in will be enough, maybe they will go through the zone to get draconides & 2.5 but maybe in a few custom zone, we will maybe have better weap than epics (do not know the plan on future epics developpement).
Fact is ST gear can already be replaced by PoF gear and I feel bad about that compared to difficulties to get in ST and get the gear. (Not so difficult for me as I got all first cloth items)
Suggestion:
Maybe all ST gear could have a second Aug slot, it could be ST aug mandatory for this second slot in addition the actual slot 8. Not sure it could be done by programming or setting ST aug on a particular aug type: means ST aug on ST gear.
To avoid public vindict, you could also add type 8 aug in PoF which are close to ST augs to plug on PoF items (with only 1 aug slot) except Fennin.
I really loved discovering ST and I would be really sad to replace 80% of the gear I got from by the PoF one so quickly and without so much pain (it is actually tested and re-adjusted so i do not tell PoF is cake but needs less time to get in). I agree that there will still the better actual caster item in ST (Thanks again Tyler).
In conclusion, I do not care if in the near future people skip ST for PoF, but I would appreciate that all efforts that are put into ST raids could have the appropriate reward.
On a side note, some "chaotic" casters effects can be obtained from Boss drops (not TS armor) so PoF Back/Waist/shoulder items for example would still be interesting for a ST geared caster which keep benefits from Warders kills with 2 slot augs items.
Hope some peeps will understand my point, meaning that on a certain point of view ST gear is better that PoF TS armor in terms of stats (if we add a second aug slot), which requier more effort to get in and raid. This is also in line with Lillu's statement saying that we cannot add powerfull item in every new zone or we will finish as a SoA server. ST could be skipped but at least give lots of benefits for people who put effort into compared to T4/T4bis PoF/PoA.
Loly.
Last edited by Lola on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sleeper
ST is a needed step. You get many many augments from this zone, the 2.5 and very valuable items.
Also, please take into account that you will most likely get crushed in PoFire if you try to enter with anything less than a full set of ToV Gear.
I don't think people will generally skip ST. I mean you need the key to ST for 2.0. You can as well raid it for the above mentioned points.
Also, please take into account that you will most likely get crushed in PoFire if you try to enter with anything less than a full set of ToV Gear.
I don't think people will generally skip ST. I mean you need the key to ST for 2.0. You can as well raid it for the above mentioned points.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Re: The Sleeper
I agree on that, but for 2.0 Zone in is fine place, and 2.5 you don't need to go kill warders, same for augs as trash is enough. Regarding Armor items only, they are better in PoF.
Just wanted to highlight that statement and make ST rewarded as it should be imo.
But afterall, I will change my armor stuff...DKP is made for that
Just wanted to highlight that statement and make ST rewarded as it should be imo.
But afterall, I will change my armor stuff...DKP is made for that
Re: The Sleeper
Loly made some good points I think, and I feel the need to agree. It's definitely possible for ST to be skipped, and it's also likely to happen due to the time it takes to key people. Also, ST is more of a pain in the *ss due to the high volume and the difficulty of the trash mobs.
PoFire would without a doubt be difficult without at least some ST gear, but by no means impossible. There are always easier named in a zone that can be pulled off with lesser gear, and with the new spells dropping off 1 group mobs then it is even more likely that the bosses would be doable without ST gear.
As for the augs in ST, tbh I only have a few. The only augs that are "omg" are the weapon augs tbh. The other augs from ToV/WW are more than enough, and upgrading to ST isn't that big of a deal most of the time. Granted, there are a few gem augs in ST (Such as the charm aug), but nothing you can't live without.
Another point is that although you do need an ST key to get your 2.0, it doesn't mean you need to raid ST. And as Loly stated, you dont even need to raid any of the ST big mobs to get your 2.5. Yet with all of this Evo still chose to raid ST this sunday instead of PoFire.
All things considered, ST is good for clicky effects. But the question is, is that enough considering the difficulty/time it takes to get to those mobs? If Evo wasn't up to ST yet, and pofire was released, it's very possible that we may have just skipped ST raids altogether...only keying for people who were ready to turn-in for their 2.0's.
To get back to Loly's point, I agree that ST needs a bit more incentive than just the clickies. PoFire is very difficult, true, so the armor should be as good as it is. On the other hand there's that whole issue of it being an open zone. Tbh, I don't think asking for a 2nd aug slot on select ST items would be out of line. Maybe not all, it's up to you, but at least some (such as weapons, misc items?) Another benefit of two aug slots is that it'll drive people to actually farm the ST augs, and not just think oh I have the ToV/WW augs so I don't need ST augs...which is what's happening atm ><
PoFire would without a doubt be difficult without at least some ST gear, but by no means impossible. There are always easier named in a zone that can be pulled off with lesser gear, and with the new spells dropping off 1 group mobs then it is even more likely that the bosses would be doable without ST gear.
As for the augs in ST, tbh I only have a few. The only augs that are "omg" are the weapon augs tbh. The other augs from ToV/WW are more than enough, and upgrading to ST isn't that big of a deal most of the time. Granted, there are a few gem augs in ST (Such as the charm aug), but nothing you can't live without.
Another point is that although you do need an ST key to get your 2.0, it doesn't mean you need to raid ST. And as Loly stated, you dont even need to raid any of the ST big mobs to get your 2.5. Yet with all of this Evo still chose to raid ST this sunday instead of PoFire.
All things considered, ST is good for clicky effects. But the question is, is that enough considering the difficulty/time it takes to get to those mobs? If Evo wasn't up to ST yet, and pofire was released, it's very possible that we may have just skipped ST raids altogether...only keying for people who were ready to turn-in for their 2.0's.
To get back to Loly's point, I agree that ST needs a bit more incentive than just the clickies. PoFire is very difficult, true, so the armor should be as good as it is. On the other hand there's that whole issue of it being an open zone. Tbh, I don't think asking for a 2nd aug slot on select ST items would be out of line. Maybe not all, it's up to you, but at least some (such as weapons, misc items?) Another benefit of two aug slots is that it'll drive people to actually farm the ST augs, and not just think oh I have the ToV/WW augs so I don't need ST augs...which is what's happening atm ><
Jeido, Founder of Evolution
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