The Sleeper
Re: The Sleeper
just remember when you have the gear from the zone you are fighting it does tend to make the mobs easier...swap out your gear to the old stuff like ToV minus 2.0 and use 1.5 then tell us it is still easy imo. cause thats what we are gonna be doing that stuff in....
Re: The Sleeper
Kiowa wrote:just remember when you have the gear from the zone you are fighting it does tend to make the mobs easier...swap out your gear to the old stuff like ToV minus 2.0 and use 1.5 then tell us it is still easy imo. cause thats what we are gonna be doing that stuff in....
Hehe yeah, I spoke a bit with tankz last night before you killed Vulak. I asked him to post feedback on ST encounters, because we've been over-geared for it for quite some time I feel.
The first run was a fluke, and it wasn't fully tuned yet we got some drops from it (great ones at that ). Second time it was still a bit too easy, but got tuned again. Now we're even more geared. My point is that I understand and you're right, but if you guys kill Sleeper and think it's too easy then I hope this issue will be revived!
Jeido, Founder of Evolution
Re: The Sleeper
I quote Secret's server update:
Edit: to eliminate a bottleneck with now 2 guilds going for the same content - the respawn times of ST Key droppers have been reduced to 90000 seconds!
It was really not necessary as Evolution is full flagged for main (and oit took a good amount of time) and we still have some "non usefull alts" unkeyed.
We had a great discussion on ST and it should stay a challenged zone so please : Do not make it too easy for Progeny to get in ST, they will proove they can do it spending the requiered time to get in.
PS: really no offense to them, I came to congratulate them on Vulak and I am really happy to get a second good raiding guild on THF (the 3rd will become soon) but it is maybe too much helping them progressing.
Thanks.
Edit: to eliminate a bottleneck with now 2 guilds going for the same content - the respawn times of ST Key droppers have been reduced to 90000 seconds!
It was really not necessary as Evolution is full flagged for main (and oit took a good amount of time) and we still have some "non usefull alts" unkeyed.
We had a great discussion on ST and it should stay a challenged zone so please : Do not make it too easy for Progeny to get in ST, they will proove they can do it spending the requiered time to get in.
PS: really no offense to them, I came to congratulate them on Vulak and I am really happy to get a second good raiding guild on THF (the 3rd will become soon) but it is maybe too much helping them progressing.
Thanks.
Re: The Sleeper
Yeah I was pretty upset at that too.
If anything it seems to be favoring for Progency if nothing else. Now they will be keyed in no time flat as the respawn will be really fast, and evo doesn't even really farm the ST keys anyways except for alts. Makes me wonder why Evo had to wait so long for them to get keyed up if it was just going to be changed when any other competition came around. Though what was respawn before? Not sure, we never really stressed it, just killed at our leisure. It lowers the value of being ST keyed, just like the 6 hour repop and 6 drops of epic pieces made the 1.5 "epic" not epic at all, just some thing you did real quick whenever you had time.
Having competition (progency and evolution) is some times fun you know, if we have to actually compete for ST respawn that's more a good thing than bad, as we can compete to see who will get geared for next area. Right now jeido can farm a lot of Sleeper's Tomb with just his crew of 6 players. We don't even need to raid it anymore. Gear >>>>> Mobs. This doesn't seem right. :/
I mean, really it's ideal to sit down and consider these kind of things prior to release. Make them REDICULOUSLY hard, and slowly, oh so slowly tune them down as you get feedback. You want guilds to barely kill a mega end-zone raid boss with gear from that instance. You want them to have to deck themselves out and get tired of the zone and getting the loot. Once you find a point players can kill it, keep it that way. don't alter respawns after you establish it on release, don't make it easier, or decrease aoe's etc, the point is to make it a challenge, and it feels like in every corner the player base gets their hand held for every new instance... most of which they don't even need their hands held.
The accomplishment comes from doing something hard, and the difficulty of the server seems to have been questionable to me for some time now.. Tyler if you make really hard instances that evo can't beat the first run through, you realize this gives you more time to work on other content right? If we're stuck and unable to kill fennin and keep having to farm gear prior to it, this gives you more time to work on newer content while we're focusing on gearing up to get ourselves uber enough to take out the next boss.
Sleepers only took us one wipe and we nailed it.. That is way too easy. The entire fennin ring we more or less did our first try, that's too easy. Sleepers as a whole after the beefy revamp we walked through without a single wipe, until we hit that one warder and was caught off guard, and even then were battle rezzing and made it no problem.
See the trend? In most raids I don't even bother 6 boxing, as things die so easily anyways with our crew that I can just box my bard and cleric and we have no need for additional DPS. We have an average of 5 player-ran clerics in every raid, and that's just people who so happened to level one up. Considering that every player can potentially have a cleric boxed + cleric bot, the damage output of mobs can potentially be a lot higher to make for a greater challenge. our typical CCH order is 2. Yes, only 2 of our 5 clerics are even focusing on complete healing, the rest are just padding. The mob is dead before any mana issues even arise. See the trivialness? Hehe.
That's my opinion at least, things too easy. How many attempts did it take to kill vulak as Progency? if they killed it first round, what's the accomplishment? That they cleared ntov to kill it? :/
Hah, sorry I'm sort of venting, but this sort of strings from my "every boss AEs rampages rant", which btw I love PoFire and the effort put into making them more unique and fun. It really stops the boringness of raiding. But now i'm being lazy in my CCH chains, not worrying about the AE's too much, and just in general feeling like we are getting great new gear upgrades for killing mobs just a little bit harder than what we killed before. :/
If anything it seems to be favoring for Progency if nothing else. Now they will be keyed in no time flat as the respawn will be really fast, and evo doesn't even really farm the ST keys anyways except for alts. Makes me wonder why Evo had to wait so long for them to get keyed up if it was just going to be changed when any other competition came around. Though what was respawn before? Not sure, we never really stressed it, just killed at our leisure. It lowers the value of being ST keyed, just like the 6 hour repop and 6 drops of epic pieces made the 1.5 "epic" not epic at all, just some thing you did real quick whenever you had time.
Having competition (progency and evolution) is some times fun you know, if we have to actually compete for ST respawn that's more a good thing than bad, as we can compete to see who will get geared for next area. Right now jeido can farm a lot of Sleeper's Tomb with just his crew of 6 players. We don't even need to raid it anymore. Gear >>>>> Mobs. This doesn't seem right. :/
I mean, really it's ideal to sit down and consider these kind of things prior to release. Make them REDICULOUSLY hard, and slowly, oh so slowly tune them down as you get feedback. You want guilds to barely kill a mega end-zone raid boss with gear from that instance. You want them to have to deck themselves out and get tired of the zone and getting the loot. Once you find a point players can kill it, keep it that way. don't alter respawns after you establish it on release, don't make it easier, or decrease aoe's etc, the point is to make it a challenge, and it feels like in every corner the player base gets their hand held for every new instance... most of which they don't even need their hands held.
The accomplishment comes from doing something hard, and the difficulty of the server seems to have been questionable to me for some time now.. Tyler if you make really hard instances that evo can't beat the first run through, you realize this gives you more time to work on other content right? If we're stuck and unable to kill fennin and keep having to farm gear prior to it, this gives you more time to work on newer content while we're focusing on gearing up to get ourselves uber enough to take out the next boss.
Sleepers only took us one wipe and we nailed it.. That is way too easy. The entire fennin ring we more or less did our first try, that's too easy. Sleepers as a whole after the beefy revamp we walked through without a single wipe, until we hit that one warder and was caught off guard, and even then were battle rezzing and made it no problem.
See the trend? In most raids I don't even bother 6 boxing, as things die so easily anyways with our crew that I can just box my bard and cleric and we have no need for additional DPS. We have an average of 5 player-ran clerics in every raid, and that's just people who so happened to level one up. Considering that every player can potentially have a cleric boxed + cleric bot, the damage output of mobs can potentially be a lot higher to make for a greater challenge. our typical CCH order is 2. Yes, only 2 of our 5 clerics are even focusing on complete healing, the rest are just padding. The mob is dead before any mana issues even arise. See the trivialness? Hehe.
That's my opinion at least, things too easy. How many attempts did it take to kill vulak as Progency? if they killed it first round, what's the accomplishment? That they cleared ntov to kill it? :/
Hah, sorry I'm sort of venting, but this sort of strings from my "every boss AEs rampages rant", which btw I love PoFire and the effort put into making them more unique and fun. It really stops the boringness of raiding. But now i'm being lazy in my CCH chains, not worrying about the AE's too much, and just in general feeling like we are getting great new gear upgrades for killing mobs just a little bit harder than what we killed before. :/
Last edited by Shin Noir on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sleeper
Lola wrote:I quote Secret's server update:
Edit: to eliminate a bottleneck with now 2 guilds going for the same content - the respawn times of ST Key droppers have been reduced to 90000 seconds!
It was really not necessary as Evolution is full flagged for main (and oit took a good amount of time) and we still have some "non usefull alts" unkeyed.
We had a great discussion on ST and it should stay a challenged zone so please : Do not make it too easy for Progeny to get in ST, they will proove they can do it spending the requiered time to get in.
To make it short: Progeny is capable to beat anything, I have no doubt. and we won't make content easier ever. so far all well tuned and balanced, at least I hope so. most of the content took weeks to tune to achieve this.
Lowering the spawn timers on ST key droppers happened due to a misscommunication among the GM team. We'll set it back to the original value. you guys know me, I'm evil and I want all guild and players to suffer for their achievement as much as possible. more suffer = more fun and will make you proud for what you have achieved! and as I pointed this out a few times already, if someone is looking for the easy stuff, he can play on the 5x exp/aa/loot/progression/1 item turn in 2.0epic servers, THF is exclusively for the dedicated players, and will stay this way, regardless if this affects our server population. and we are serious about this
Re: The Sleeper
I do not agree Shin.
Evolution being on top of new content discovering, Jeido always gives feedback on encounters and I think that it is not easy for GM teams to set up fights with the appropriate difficulty. That's no issue for me as it is a great teamwork between players and GM team.
If the difficulty was really too big, we would not be able to give a feedback if we cannot do anything past the 1st boss.
But finally, the respawn time of ST keydroppers will remain as it was and that's for me, the priority hehe.
And I am sure that Progeny peeps do not want to get easy way to succeed in.
Evolution being on top of new content discovering, Jeido always gives feedback on encounters and I think that it is not easy for GM teams to set up fights with the appropriate difficulty. That's no issue for me as it is a great teamwork between players and GM team.
If the difficulty was really too big, we would not be able to give a feedback if we cannot do anything past the 1st boss.
But finally, the respawn time of ST keydroppers will remain as it was and that's for me, the priority hehe.
And I am sure that Progeny peeps do not want to get easy way to succeed in.
Re: The Sleeper
Just asked Mezzic about vulak kill:
How many times did you clear NToV? 1.5 times cause we bring a lot of DPS
How many wipes during vulak kill? How many attempts? 3 wipes, first attempt
How many of the players on vulak killed were ToV geared? about half were full tov, all alts had emp + weapons
How many players did it take? 7 live players, 7 alts, and 3 bots.
I dunno, granted they have farmed a lot of TOV quested armor (for half their army), but what do you think of those stats? Maybe that's the projected difficulty.
I'm still not used to this server and what it considers difficult or not, but I see that essentially me and another group can take out to vulak if I were to farm it while 6 boxing. Heh. It'd be a lot of farming and gear, but.. yeah. :/
How many times did you clear NToV? 1.5 times cause we bring a lot of DPS
How many wipes during vulak kill? How many attempts? 3 wipes, first attempt
How many of the players on vulak killed were ToV geared? about half were full tov, all alts had emp + weapons
How many players did it take? 7 live players, 7 alts, and 3 bots.
I dunno, granted they have farmed a lot of TOV quested armor (for half their army), but what do you think of those stats? Maybe that's the projected difficulty.
I'm still not used to this server and what it considers difficult or not, but I see that essentially me and another group can take out to vulak if I were to farm it while 6 boxing. Heh. It'd be a lot of farming and gear, but.. yeah. :/
Re: The Sleeper
you also have to realize that this is a emulated server and that not everyone is hardcore push it to the max ballstothewall raider. and that you cant make everything imposible and have to have a 18 man team to do stuff. it just aint gonna happen unless we get more people to take alts and bot spots. i know you guys raid regularly with 4-5 clerics. we barely make due with 2. because hardly anyone wants to play a cleric. so we are already hindered. and yea i know you gonna say but you have cleric bots also. thats 5 healers...3 with the mental capacity of a blade of grass. but in the end i feel events should be tuned to what can be fielded. but i am also not saying they should be easier.
Re: The Sleeper
too many things and topics to reply already, but I will try.
Thats pretty offensive, but I will be polity and let you know, that noone of the dev team would do ANYTHING like that ever. if we change something, we do it for the overal benefit for every players.
Jeido is a skilled player, having the best equiped and strongest hydra crew on the server. he's basically a one man guild. this is eqemu, if we make the highend content even harder (lol?), noone will ever beat anything.. also, if your guild can't kill stuff, you stop playing, less will play, less stuff to be able to beat.. our server population is pretty low STILL for this simple reason. (while other servers just run 5 SQL udate command to make everything have 5x stats, aa, exp, gear, and beat our population in 1 week).. you still want us to make things harder with comments as
if you want gear <<< Mobs, it means you'll never beat anything.. so I dont get your point tbh.
first of all, Tyler has nothing to do with instancing or the adventure system. and he is working on Tier 5. but you are right Shin, I already told Tyler after PoF release and today I told the same to Secrets, not to ever release content that is beatable on the first run (for the target lvl range). so in the future, this wont happen, I can promise you that.
actually, just fyi, this is how content release works. we discuss, plan, implement, test (with selected players) and release it.
Just ask Jeido how many time I beg him not to recruit 70% of the server. this makes the content trival. and force the dev team to tune encounters for a raid force that is not typical on an emu server. this is a problem since beta.. you guys either split into small competitive guilds and will get a challenge or unite to zerg the content. up to you, but we cant make the content EVEN harder, just see my previous comment why.. I hope you understand that.
Anyways, comments and discussions are always welcome, and I hope I was able to make a few things clear. (or more confusing due to my bad english
)
If anything it seems to be favoring for Progency if nothing else.
Thats pretty offensive, but I will be polity and let you know, that noone of the dev team would do ANYTHING like that ever. if we change something, we do it for the overal benefit for every players.
Right now jeido can farm a lot of Sleeper's Tomb with just his crew of 6 players. We don't even need to raid it anymore. . This doesn't seem right. :/
Jeido is a skilled player, having the best equiped and strongest hydra crew on the server. he's basically a one man guild. this is eqemu, if we make the highend content even harder (lol?), noone will ever beat anything.. also, if your guild can't kill stuff, you stop playing, less will play, less stuff to be able to beat.. our server population is pretty low STILL for this simple reason. (while other servers just run 5 SQL udate command to make everything have 5x stats, aa, exp, gear, and beat our population in 1 week).. you still want us to make things harder with comments as
Gear >>>>> Mobs
if you want gear <<< Mobs, it means you'll never beat anything.. so I dont get your point tbh.
we always do, at least trying our best.I mean, really it's ideal to sit down and consider these kind of things prior to release.
Make them REDICULOUSLY hard, and slowly, oh so slowly tune them down as you get feedback. You want guilds to barely kill a mega end-zone raid boss with gear from that instance. You want them to have to deck themselves out and get tired of the zone and getting the loot. Once you find a point players can kill it, keep it that way. don't alter respawns after you establish it on release, don't make it easier, or decrease aoe's etc, the point is to make it a challenge, and it feels like in every corner the player base gets their hand held for every new instance... most of which they don't even need their hands held.
The accomplishment comes from doing something hard, and the difficulty of the server seems to have been questionable to me for some time now.. Tyler if you make really hard instances that evo can't beat the first run through, you realize this gives you more time to work on other content right?
first of all, Tyler has nothing to do with instancing or the adventure system. and he is working on Tier 5. but you are right Shin, I already told Tyler after PoF release and today I told the same to Secrets, not to ever release content that is beatable on the first run (for the target lvl range). so in the future, this wont happen, I can promise you that.
actually, just fyi, this is how content release works. we discuss, plan, implement, test (with selected players) and release it.
well lol. please name ANY other server that is harder to progress on.the difficulty of the server seems to have been questionable to me for some time now..
See the trend? In most raids I don't even bother 6 boxing, as things die so easily anyways with our crew that I can just box my bard and cleric and we have no need for additional DPS. We have an average of 5 player-ran clerics in every raid, and that's just people who so happened to level one up. Considering that every player can potentially have a cleric boxed + cleric bot, the damage output of mobs can potentially be a lot higher to make for a greater challenge. our typical CCH order is 2. Yes, only 2 of our 5 clerics are even focusing on complete healing, the rest are just padding. The mob is dead before any mana issues even arise. See the trivialness? Hehe.
Just ask Jeido how many time I beg him not to recruit 70% of the server. this makes the content trival. and force the dev team to tune encounters for a raid force that is not typical on an emu server. this is a problem since beta.. you guys either split into small competitive guilds and will get a challenge or unite to zerg the content. up to you, but we cant make the content EVEN harder, just see my previous comment why.. I hope you understand that.
Anyways, comments and discussions are always welcome, and I hope I was able to make a few things clear. (or more confusing due to my bad english
)Re: The Sleeper
You replied after my post "Lowering the spawn timers on ST key droppers happened due to a misscommunication among the GM team. ". That's good, no reason for you to take offense then. 
Take my words with a grain of salt really, I'm sorry if you took it offensively, it wasn't really my intention. I obviously like this server, otherwise why would I be putting so much time into it? I only voice my opinion on areas I think that could use some improvement, if you disagree, that's great, let me know, and i'll shut up about it.
Though really I should probably shut up anyways since it seems I'm pretty one sided on this mindset of having a difficult server. About all I'm doing is hearing resistance to making things more of a challenge. Heh. Which is fine, I can't really expect a lot of support to making things more difficult.
Take my words with a grain of salt really, I'm sorry if you took it offensively, it wasn't really my intention. I obviously like this server, otherwise why would I be putting so much time into it? I only voice my opinion on areas I think that could use some improvement, if you disagree, that's great, let me know, and i'll shut up about it.
Though really I should probably shut up anyways since it seems I'm pretty one sided on this mindset of having a difficult server. About all I'm doing is hearing resistance to making things more of a challenge. Heh. Which is fine, I can't really expect a lot of support to making things more difficult.
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