Rangers

[Ydiss]

We've often thought the Ranger was the only class that doesn't really bring anything different to a raid or group; they do comparatively moderate to low DPS depending on the target, they don't shine with heals or spell damage, they don't debuff and they don't have any special item or attack that helps to define the class. We have a Ranger but only because we have made a point of including at least one of every class in our guild/raid.

In general, the only benefit to using a ranger is they have ranged DPS, which isn't exclusive to their own class and, what's worse, it's halved damage on rooted targets (which is a huge number of encounters).

Their buffs, mostly, don't stack with other classes. The only buff they can use is the Empowering Water line. On paper, this seems to be a nice group buff but in parse tests it has a tiny impact (some classes increase their minimum damage from 1 to 2... and after multiple tests across different classes, it was impossible to determine any benefit)

I thought a thread to put forward ideas to make the class step up to the plate would be a nice idea; I don't think they need to be buffed, so to speak; for what they are, they do fine at but they just don't add anything that another class cannot do (and they're the only class like this, in my opinion). So to kick it off, I have my own idea.

No class can AOE debuff. All the debuff classes are useful against single targets (so most bosses) but your enchanter and shaman are generally buff bots until you get to a boss (and the shaman isn't much more use there unless the target is slowable). It's not practical to debuff single targets when pulling a larger group of mobs (and any adds in boss encounters tend to not be debuffed).

Not that trash tends to require debuffing most of the time, but I thought it'd be neat to be able to lay down debuffs on groups of mobs, both in boss encounters and general trash. It'd be useful particularly when breaking into a new tier and would make farming faster, as well as allowing the Ranger to provide a tangible benefit to boss encounters that include adds.

I was thinking the Ranger could have a line of Trap spells. These would be AOE and would remain in place for a short period of time. Any mob entering the AOE would be debuffed (subject to resist checks of course). The spells could be in maybe two to three lines, each designed to debuff in different ways but all using the same re-use timer, so you'd need to decide which to use depending on your raid/group setup or targets. Or, just one of the suggestions below could be used, rather than all three.

They wouldn't be any better than existing single target debuffs, so they won't stack, but will work on any mobs that haven't been debuffed already

Examples (the stats are arbitrary, I'm not proposing the balance but just the general idea):

Stalker's Savage Trap Rk. I-III
PB AOE: 50
Duration: 30 seconds (Debuff duration 1 minute)
Re-use: 1 minute
Resist: Magic (-50 to -250 RK. III)
Effect: Reduces AC by 30-100, Increases melee vulnerability by 20-40%
Recourse: 10-30% chance to proc a bleed DOT on target

Nature's Strike Trap Rk. I-III
PB AOE: 50
Duration: 30 seconds
Re-use: 1 minute (Debuff duration 1 minute)
Resist: Fire (-50 to -250)
Effect: Reduces Fire and Cold resistances by 15-50, increases spell damage by 20-40%
Recourse: 10-30% chance to proc mana drain on target

Strider's Enfeeblement Trap RK. I-III
PB AOE: 50
Duration: 15 seconds (Debuff duration 45 seconds)
Re-use: 1.5 minutes
Resist: Cold (-50-250)
Effect: Reduces ATK by 100, AC by 50-150, increases spell damage by 10-30%, increases melee vulnerability by 10-30%
Recourse: 10-30% chance to proc reverse damage shield on target that heals anyone hitting them

Any thoughts or ideas welcome.

[Sian]

Bringing love to rangers would not be unwelcomed indeed. But about your numbers, the melee vulnerability or the spell one would be too huge indeed hehe

[Ydiss]

Yeh, can be tweaked. It needs to be weaker than all existing spells.

[peterigz]

Rangers definitely need something to distinguish them. There's no class that really has AoE covered, there's the rain spells of wizards and mages, but they're mostly resisted in higher tiers with no spells to replace them, so as well as the aoe debuffs that Ydiss mentions, I would suggest a buff that splits the arrows into 2 or 3 for any normal attack, so they behave similar to the rain spells, but with arrows.

Maybe on early versions of the spells the extra arrows do less damage, increasing as you get later versions (and also increasing the number of mobs you can hit)

[Xorp]

I will chime in here and add that I recently added a ranger to my raid, and I have to say, I was kind of underwhelmed. I even got him the donor bow that summons legendary arrows, and even with full raid buffs , mostly maxxed stats, and unrooted targets, the DPS wasn't anything to write home about.

On the upside, I suppose Power of the Forest buff line is better to use on your melee dps over brells, and empowering water stacks with most other buffs, but didn't notice any sort of tangible increases after i started using the ranger and these buffs.

If rangers do ever see improvements.. (which I agree should happen in some form or another), I would just ask that they keep their ranged archery skills intact as their primary means of dealing dps. What I mean is don't give them like a super powered self only buff that quadruples their melee damage .. I love to pew pew ! That's what a ranger should be doing in my opinion..

The trap thing would be cool if 1) they were instant cast, and 2) you could target a mob OR a player character to cast it on and subsequently be triggered by mobs, and 3) increase the rangers archery dps on trapped mobs some ;p

[Ydiss]

Great, thanks for the ideas

A split arrows AOE ability would be great. It could maybe be a discipline that lasts for 30-45 seconds with a 3-5 minute re-use, so it can be used regularly but not all the time.

Rk. I does 20% less damage, hits 1 additional target (AOE around target), Rk. II does 10% less damage, hits 2 additional targets and Rk. III hits 3 additional targets with no damage reduction.

Xorp, you've given me a good idea. That's exactly what the trap should be used for (to make the pew pew more). I think instead of three traps, the Ranger would only need one and Split Arrows.

Trap: Stalker's Enfeeblement Rk. I-III
AOE on target: 50
Duration: 30 seconds (Debuff duration 1 minute)
Re-use: 1 minute
Resist: Magic (-50 to -250 RK. III)
Effect: Reduces ATK by (50, 75, 100), Increases spell vulnerability by (5%, 10%, 15%), increases Ranged damage by (25%, 30%, 35%)
Recourse: 10-30% chance to proc a bleed DOT on target

Spell vulnerability doesn't stack with any other of its type (so Season's Fury on the druid 2.0 will overwrite on the boss). The ATK reduction will help the tank manage the adds better and the ranged damage would be a synergy with Split Arrows, allowing the ranger to weaken multiple targets to spell damage but primarily allow them to do greater AOE damage to large groups of mobs for a short period of time (and still make their damage better at other times when Split Arrows isn't up). This would give Rangers a really cool niche that won't make them significantly more deadly against single target bosses but will make them the kings/queens of add killers, whilst also helping the raid more in certain encounters.

This would also mitigate the root damage reduction issue, allowing Rangers do to better damage on some bosses.

[Xorp]

Also, I believe Ranger's BP, if you invest that heavily into them, completely removes the rooted / running damage penalty for rangers while the clicky is active, so the traps could probably also integrate that to some degree, maybe by 25/50/75% reduction of the penalty per rank of the trap... I hate knowing that penalties like that exist.. I kind of wish it would just go away completely.

[Rude]

Yar, I grouped with a full donor ranger a few times. When he popped his donor BP he came probably 60-75% close to rogue DPS. The problem is, non donor, there is zero reason to have a ranger period. I really really like the idea of giving them a disc, with a SHORT reuse timer, that causes their arrows to hit AE. That would at least give them something unique. It might not completely fix their problems, but it would be a huge boost.

[peterigz]

I'd make it usable all the time really, short duration but use whenever, then you have the control over using once the tank has got aggro. Ranger DPS is low enough that it wouldn't be over powered imo.

Traps could be great for the class too, I'm thinking a root trap you could set up on the Zethurim fight Things like that could open up some interesting strategies on boss fights and make rangers very useful - how easy that is to achieve code wise though, I'm not sure...

[Stickybuds]

just wanna give my +1 to the AE arrows, make it via a buff that last short duration, 1-10min or hell make it a skill/disc like zerker frenzy attack. rangers need some love and there isnt many AE attacks on THF compared to how often we AE tank trash type mobs.