Rk 1 Spells

Got some?
eustace11
Posts: 66

Rk 1 Spells

Post#1 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:26 pm

Hey,

I was just wondering if it would be too much trouble to make Moon Curse, Mana Inferno, Insight of the Seer, and Gladiator at all Rk 1 into group-wide spells. It'd be great if Panther Maw was as well.

I'm not sure why those are single target; however, I'm really lazy and stuff.

Thanks for your consideration,

Erik/Eustace/Icebear

User avatar
Nilbus
Posts: 1258

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#2 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 pm

To give a benefit/reason to go after the no drop rk2s and 3s.
Nodyin-Nilbus-Pockit-Tiah-Rakas- Funeral
Likeatruck-Khaltos-Nilbie-Ziknaf-Prathun-Missus
Elidor
Youme-Yumme-Blazingtide-Sublin-Lissanda-Darmok
Djarik-Ikat-Nerys-Ometi-Tarana-Biln

I know way too much random stuff.

Ydiss
Posts: 1193

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#3 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:55 pm

Our shaman would be delighted if this were to happen (poor lass gets overworked and is always the last one buffing :)) but the balance between Rk. I and II being single to group is important. I think it's more than enough that we can use T8 spells at level 70 pre-raid and, for many spells, there's a T5 equivalent that is group target and not that far off of the Rk. I version.

What I wouldn't mind is a couple more T5 equivalents that aren't quite as nice as Rk. I but are group versions. For example, True Thoughts for the Enchanter, sat between Chaotic Thoughts and Insight Rk. I gives you an improved group target version of the previous spell that's slightly weaker than the single target Rk. I spell. True Thoughts isn't significantly weaker than Insight, so it's something we'd consider if our Enchanter was taking too long to buff. We don't use it but that's because the Enchanter isn't overloaded when it comes to buff time (particularly given the Shaman takes ages anyway), so gladly take the hit and get the benefits of the Rk. I spell. This is good spell design, in my opinion.

Spirit of the Panther Rk. I doesn't have a similar spell (previous is Spirit of the Panther which is also single target). So a spell like "True Panther", which is say 200 dmg 400% procrate but group (bridging 175 and 275 dmg) would be something I'd consider using instead of the Rk. I spell until T8.

Similarly, there's actually no previous version of Gladiator (that I know of... Champion and the Might spells aren't the same line and stack with it). So a group target spell called something like "True Contender", that gives +20% chance to trigger critical dot, critical nuke and +20% physical damage (instead of +27%), would be something we'd definitely consider using instead of Gladiator Rk. I under many circumstances.

There might be more examples like that, though the only class that I think really suffers with the single target buff limitation is the Shaman, due to the number of buffs they get, and those two spells are the only ones that we really have to use sparingly due to the impracticality of casing them on every raid member, that also don't appear to have a "True" group version. We don't even bother with Lion much at all, it just takes too long to cast on top of Gladiator and doesn't last long enough.

So if there was going to be a change, I'd vote for something like that. Two new spells for the Shaman, T5 group versions of Lion and Gladiator, that are less effective but save a load of time for the Shaman when buffing and would be more than suitable for T5 to T7. In this case, we might even consider using True Thoughts instead of Insight Rk. I most of the time, as well - our buff times would be significantly reduced but we'd still be more than competetive at our current tier.

Ydiss
Posts: 1193

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#4 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:04 pm

In addition to the above, I'd be all for the same happening for Moon Curse and Mana Inferno.

True Inferno (1850-2000 DD proc instead of 2850) and True Curse (50-60% movement instead of 80%, mana regen 5 instead of 10, flurry and critical hit 4-5% instead of 8%)

eustace11
Posts: 66

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#5 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:08 am

I'm too lazy to read through all of your pragmatism and logical analysis.

Forget I asked.

Thanks.

dusta
Posts: 383

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#6 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:18 am

eustace11 wrote:I'm too lazy to read through all of your pragmatism and logical analysis.

Forget I asked.

Thanks.

Well they was kinda agreeing with you there.....

eustace11
Posts: 66

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#7 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:50 am

dusta wrote:
eustace11 wrote:I'm too lazy to read through all of your pragmatism and logical analysis.

Forget I asked.

Thanks.

Well they was kinda agreeing with you there.....


Well in that case, I'm pro-war and pro-family. A dragon shank in every pot!

Ydiss
Posts: 1193

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#8 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:30 pm

To summarise, there's a case for change to help reduce the buff bloat that affects certain classes (mostly shaman, then enchanter and somewhat druid if using moon curse). I don't think the change should be to make all rk. I spells group. I do think a few new t5 "true..." type spells that are group target, weaker versions of the rk. I spells would be very welcome.

peterigz
Posts: 594

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#9 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:00 pm

I'd vote for True Thoughts and Godly Conversion IV to be made group. Or a T5/6 quest where you can turn in the scrolls to get it upgraded to a group version.

eustace11
Posts: 66

Re: Rk 1 Spells

Post#10 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:41 am

A very good alternative would be to make these listed single target spells a 2-hour duration.

I'd be more satisfied with that than with a group version.

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