Without a charm (like in ToV, etc,) I'm just a poor nuker: a 1600 dmg nuke, & very occasional mez.
It'd be easy to fix: just add a (decent) dire charmable mob in every zone.
(Or put my Ruin AA on a 5 minute timer, so I can use it to recharm mobs.)
Thank you,
- Luthier
Encs suggestions
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
you should look into the enchanter donator..its basicly a dire charm that will allow you to charm anything (tintaively speaking)
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
Thank you for the suggestion, but I currently can't afford the donator weapon.
Without it, we still need a pet. (And since our nukes are awful, a decent pet.)
Without it, we still need a pet. (And since our nukes are awful, a decent pet.)
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
This has been brought up before, not just by Enchanters. Druids also have extremely limited Dire Charm victims as they progress up in levels. Bards, too, are feeling the lack of love.
I have majorly mixed emotions regarding the donor items (and I've edited this post two times, already, even before hitting submit, because of it.) but as custom spells have been created to be placed on those donor items, I can't use my favorite complaint.
But I can say this, whole-heartedly, the more donor-only items that some people enjoy flaunting in other players' faces, the less often some people are willing to log in on this server.
....and no, there just isn't enough chocolate in the Universe to make it all better.
I have majorly mixed emotions regarding the donor items (and I've edited this post two times, already, even before hitting submit, because of it.) but as custom spells have been created to be placed on those donor items, I can't use my favorite complaint.
But I can say this, whole-heartedly, the more donor-only items that some people enjoy flaunting in other players' faces, the less often some people are willing to log in on this server.
....and no, there just isn't enough chocolate in the Universe to make it all better.
I need a scorecard to keep track of all of my alts!!
Kymarrah/ Mierrie/ Cialla/ Dhaani/ Bellabee
and so very many more....
Kymarrah/ Mierrie/ Cialla/ Dhaani/ Bellabee
and so very many more....
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
I own an enchanter, and have the enchanter donor. And it's probably the least played of my chars. But I do box, so the same could be said of my rangers, they wouldn't know what to do if a mob actually came close than bow range!
When i do tag it along, its generally just for buffs or the rune spell. If I do find a donor charmable mob I can at least have some dps, but they are generally rare. I'm not knocking the enc donor, because it is fun, and in air the mobs I can donor charm are out-damaging my donor rangers 2-3x. So thats a zone where i allways tag along my enc. No idea what mobs can / cant be mezzed, as the times where i felt i needed it, it generally didnt work so I stopped trying.
I do feel for those people who rolled an enc as a main, but theyre kinda like live, as in great to have one along for the buffs, but not really essential like a cleric, unless your in your 50's and having a blast crawling a dungeon which makes it require crowd control.
The 2.0 idea seems to work, but i personally dont see any benefit from casting the spell on the mob with my wiz's, I cast it if I remember.
No idea if any of this makes sense, but i'm having a glass of wine and it feels right!
Farcical (was Bishbash from SOA but nice name policy didnt allow it)
8 monitors, 4 keyboards, 4 mice, 3 Pc's, 2 Laptops and a lot of multi-tasking
When i do tag it along, its generally just for buffs or the rune spell. If I do find a donor charmable mob I can at least have some dps, but they are generally rare. I'm not knocking the enc donor, because it is fun, and in air the mobs I can donor charm are out-damaging my donor rangers 2-3x. So thats a zone where i allways tag along my enc. No idea what mobs can / cant be mezzed, as the times where i felt i needed it, it generally didnt work so I stopped trying.
I do feel for those people who rolled an enc as a main, but theyre kinda like live, as in great to have one along for the buffs, but not really essential like a cleric, unless your in your 50's and having a blast crawling a dungeon which makes it require crowd control.
The 2.0 idea seems to work, but i personally dont see any benefit from casting the spell on the mob with my wiz's, I cast it if I remember.
No idea if any of this makes sense, but i'm having a glass of wine and it feels right!
Farcical (was Bishbash from SOA but nice name policy didnt allow it)
8 monitors, 4 keyboards, 4 mice, 3 Pc's, 2 Laptops and a lot of multi-tasking
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
I started here as an enchanter, they have always been my favourite class and played well are possibly the most powerful solo and in groups.
Enchanters are a lot of fun up until 70 and post KD. Up till then cc is useful, slow is useful, charm is great as always.
Enchanters strengths are CC, Buffs, Debuffs (slow mainly), and dps in the form of charm.
Enchanter weaknesses are suvivability and dps without charm.
CC -
Crowd control is not part of the game in the lower raid tiers. Most mobs are immune, and most mobs are easily single pulled. There are very few encounters where CC is part of the design. Even with the modified emp fight it is viable to tank the numerous adds rather than CC them.
Buffs -
Useful enchanter buffs at 70 are rolled into one spell - haste + mana regen + crit mod. The DPS component of this buff is small compared to bard and shaman buffs. The mana increase and regen while top of the line is only useful in rare circumstances. I have found that 4 healers can chain cast primary heals (not cheal) and be 70%+ mana after a 10 minute fight. Hence this buff is a nice to have but not game changing. Due to the disparity between 50 mana regen per 6 seconds, and 1000+ mana used in 6 seconds, the regen component is minor. The extra mana pool is probably useful in some cases but I've never gotten that low on mana that I needed it.
Debuffs -
IMO the only useful debuff at 70 is the tashani line. I don't run nukers, its usefulness in a melee dominated group is very low as most procs seem to land without it.
- Slow becomes irrelevant as most mobs are immune. Not going to argue with that design decision as significant slow %'s are game breaking in that you either allow slow and by design require slow, or you disable slow.
- Cripple line has extemely negligible effect.
This really leaves enc's in the lower raid tiers with a buff that has middling usefulness, and a MR debuff. The buff lasts 2 hours, which means an enc's job becomes tashani and nuking or runing. This is similar to a shaman, except replace rune with a heal, and the heal is much more effective than the rune.
The real downside to this is that the dimensions of an enc described above have been taken away. Crowd control is a very active and dynamic role. Debuffing a mob can knock it down a difficulty notch, which makes a debuffer feel important and useful.
I don't think charmable mobs is the answer as this usually leads to ridiculous dps. The way I see it, encs either need to have increased utility or more encounters need CC elements. Increased utility means giving them some buffs or debuffs which will keep them active in a group/raid situation (i.e. short duration buffs that have an impact, or debuffs that have an impact). Increased CC is a bit trickier as similar to the slow scenario it can easily become a case of CC is required vs CC trivialises encounters.
Buffs - increased melee dps (weapon enchants, more illusions that add procs), increased spell dps (aka mana flare line but for raid). Debuffs - reduced damage from mob or silence effects.
Slow line could be completely redesigned and slow allowed on all mobs - for example a 10% slow at 70 becomes useful rather than the 75% slow being game breaking (or required if you design for it).
Enchanters are a lot of fun up until 70 and post KD. Up till then cc is useful, slow is useful, charm is great as always.
Enchanters strengths are CC, Buffs, Debuffs (slow mainly), and dps in the form of charm.
Enchanter weaknesses are suvivability and dps without charm.
CC -
Crowd control is not part of the game in the lower raid tiers. Most mobs are immune, and most mobs are easily single pulled. There are very few encounters where CC is part of the design. Even with the modified emp fight it is viable to tank the numerous adds rather than CC them.
Buffs -
Useful enchanter buffs at 70 are rolled into one spell - haste + mana regen + crit mod. The DPS component of this buff is small compared to bard and shaman buffs. The mana increase and regen while top of the line is only useful in rare circumstances. I have found that 4 healers can chain cast primary heals (not cheal) and be 70%+ mana after a 10 minute fight. Hence this buff is a nice to have but not game changing. Due to the disparity between 50 mana regen per 6 seconds, and 1000+ mana used in 6 seconds, the regen component is minor. The extra mana pool is probably useful in some cases but I've never gotten that low on mana that I needed it.
Debuffs -
IMO the only useful debuff at 70 is the tashani line. I don't run nukers, its usefulness in a melee dominated group is very low as most procs seem to land without it.
- Slow becomes irrelevant as most mobs are immune. Not going to argue with that design decision as significant slow %'s are game breaking in that you either allow slow and by design require slow, or you disable slow.
- Cripple line has extemely negligible effect.
This really leaves enc's in the lower raid tiers with a buff that has middling usefulness, and a MR debuff. The buff lasts 2 hours, which means an enc's job becomes tashani and nuking or runing. This is similar to a shaman, except replace rune with a heal, and the heal is much more effective than the rune.
The real downside to this is that the dimensions of an enc described above have been taken away. Crowd control is a very active and dynamic role. Debuffing a mob can knock it down a difficulty notch, which makes a debuffer feel important and useful.
I don't think charmable mobs is the answer as this usually leads to ridiculous dps. The way I see it, encs either need to have increased utility or more encounters need CC elements. Increased utility means giving them some buffs or debuffs which will keep them active in a group/raid situation (i.e. short duration buffs that have an impact, or debuffs that have an impact). Increased CC is a bit trickier as similar to the slow scenario it can easily become a case of CC is required vs CC trivialises encounters.
Buffs - increased melee dps (weapon enchants, more illusions that add procs), increased spell dps (aka mana flare line but for raid). Debuffs - reduced damage from mob or silence effects.
Slow line could be completely redesigned and slow allowed on all mobs - for example a 10% slow at 70 becomes useful rather than the 75% slow being game breaking (or required if you design for it).
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
JSRE pretty well summed it up for Chanters.
As an old hand at CCing (bard from way back on live, Hunter in WoW), a true CC specialist that's talented at it was a skill to be appreciated. Would love to see more CC fights utilized to bring back that chaotic feel to some battles.
Also, really like the idea JSRE posted about
I'm an illusion whore as is, but I like that idea, though I admit I have no clue as to what amount of coding it would or would not take to implement.
Definitely would like to see some mobs resist tables changed, or the spell adjustments raised. Would be really nice to see Slow get to be used some on my Shammy, as well not having my Paladin's True Command spell resisted so much. Slightly off topic, but i think with those adjustments, it would benefit the Chanters as well for their slows and stuns as well. Perhaps even a spell similar to the druid's epic, to allow them a bit more utility.
I don't play a Chanter, so just my 2 cents.
As an old hand at CCing (bard from way back on live, Hunter in WoW), a true CC specialist that's talented at it was a skill to be appreciated. Would love to see more CC fights utilized to bring back that chaotic feel to some battles.
Also, really like the idea JSRE posted about
"Buffs - increased melee dps (weapon enchants, more illusions that add procs), increased spell dps (aka mana flare line but for raid). Debuffs - reduced damage from mob or silence effects.
I'm an illusion whore as is, but I like that idea, though I admit I have no clue as to what amount of coding it would or would not take to implement.
Definitely would like to see some mobs resist tables changed, or the spell adjustments raised. Would be really nice to see Slow get to be used some on my Shammy, as well not having my Paladin's True Command spell resisted so much. Slightly off topic, but i think with those adjustments, it would benefit the Chanters as well for their slows and stuns as well. Perhaps even a spell similar to the druid's epic, to allow them a bit more utility.
I don't play a Chanter, so just my 2 cents.
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
Thank you, JSRE, for the *excellent* post.
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
Hello,
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2347&start=20
Illusion were designed for low levels. A new set should have appeared since.
I understand that there are plenty of tasks / developpement ongoing but this should be really looked at since lots of classes gained fun & abilities during class review and enchanters were left behind.
During custom changes, (Sune's cannot cast custom buffs)Enchanters got:
debuffs:
Poison of the Brainbender:
1 : Effect type : Decrease DEX by 100
2 : Effect type : Decrease AGI by 100
3 : Effect type : Decrease STR by 100
4 : Effect type : Decrease AC by 130
5 : Effect type : by 5 (means +5% all spells dmg)
Buffs:
Gift of the Mindbender:
9 : Effect type : Decrease Spell Mana Cost by 10%
True Thoughts
1 : Effect type : Increase Mana Pool by 4000
2 : Effect type : Increase Mana by 50 per tick (total 0)
3 : Effect type : Increase INT by 50
4 : Effect type : Increase WIS by 50
5 : Effect type : Increase Attack Speed by 68%
6 : Effect type : Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 25%
8 : Effect type : by 50
9 : Effect type : by 50
Chaotic Strike of the Mind (nuke)
1 : Effect type : Decrease Hitpoints by 3000
(I requested long time ago that the 100% dmg focus on that spell "Absolute Mindstrike" is included on 2.0 because it was only put on ToV robe - I succeed in having on Wiz 2.0 for Chaotic Detonation spell = never got it added to 2.0 sadly)
Obey (30K pp spell!?!)
1 : Effect type : Mesmerize up to level 73
2 : Effect type : Memblur (30%)
Some mobs in PoFear are mezzable and it has been introduce at PoFear time. Who care's about mezm & who will now spend 30K on this spell? I did and do not find any use, really.
In conclusion:
Illusion = Low level (20<40 range as Chaos stated. For example, Air Illusion +% critic spells does not stack with Shamy Godly conversion, point raised on June and confirmed by staff:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3655 )
Charm: Besides ToV Legs and outside of ToV...you wont charm again.
Donor charm: I asked some donor and they, except PoAir, cant use them because no interesting pet/no pet at all.
Mezm: no use, everything up to T6 is "tankable" when you have the stuff. We do not have 40K hit /Quad / flurry mobs mezzable? This would lead to get mandatory chanty in the raid to succeed. But we definitly would have if the char becomes fun. I.E We need tank to tank! We need healers to heal! Why not need a Chanty to mezm?
Fact: Shaman > Enchanters in both buffs/debuffs. (Mana is not an issue for many classes = healers, it can be an issue for Nukers (wizard speaking here and appreciate the true thought spell). Wizards are not the majority of DPs on THF as we all know that DPS is melees+procs.
Proposed solution:
Give some fun to enchanter:
Charmable and interesting mobs in every single zone T2+ up to last tier and without being obliged to grab a donor weap.
Group buffs such as Group version of Godly conversion (Chanty would > shaman at least on 1 buff).
Create new group buffs enchanters only (Is it possible to create line of spells - group spells - of line of focus such as chaotic / true / Dark (distance / enhancement etc.....)
Make use of Mezmerize spells sometimes, inevitable?
I repeat that I know since nearly 2 years that the staff is working hard on improving our pleasure on a daily basis and I really thank them for all this hard work for my/our own pleasure.
I hope that Enchanters will be looked at in the next months - We can also re-open a topic on Enchanter modification/changes on the class balance subforum.
As Kron said about me some time ago on a joke's note: "you have to give him credit for not giving up".
I never gave up with wizard's upgrade because I love my wizard. On the other hand, I just switched my enchanter for a shaman long time ago because lack of attention/interest & efficiency in a group. I did not find the wish to handle the same "fight" for the chanty than for my wizards (just see the number of posts and parses on Wizards topics on the forum).
So I hope enchanters will be looked at, otherwise, I will still play other chars (8 diff)
BR
Loly.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2347&start=20
Illusion were designed for low levels. A new set should have appeared since.
I understand that there are plenty of tasks / developpement ongoing but this should be really looked at since lots of classes gained fun & abilities during class review and enchanters were left behind.
During custom changes, (Sune's cannot cast custom buffs)Enchanters got:
debuffs:
Poison of the Brainbender:
1 : Effect type : Decrease DEX by 100
2 : Effect type : Decrease AGI by 100
3 : Effect type : Decrease STR by 100
4 : Effect type : Decrease AC by 130
5 : Effect type : by 5 (means +5% all spells dmg)
Buffs:
Gift of the Mindbender:
9 : Effect type : Decrease Spell Mana Cost by 10%
True Thoughts
1 : Effect type : Increase Mana Pool by 4000
2 : Effect type : Increase Mana by 50 per tick (total 0)
3 : Effect type : Increase INT by 50
4 : Effect type : Increase WIS by 50
5 : Effect type : Increase Attack Speed by 68%
6 : Effect type : Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 25%
8 : Effect type : by 50
9 : Effect type : by 50
Chaotic Strike of the Mind (nuke)
1 : Effect type : Decrease Hitpoints by 3000
(I requested long time ago that the 100% dmg focus on that spell "Absolute Mindstrike" is included on 2.0 because it was only put on ToV robe - I succeed in having on Wiz 2.0 for Chaotic Detonation spell = never got it added to 2.0 sadly)
Obey (30K pp spell!?!)
1 : Effect type : Mesmerize up to level 73
2 : Effect type : Memblur (30%)
Some mobs in PoFear are mezzable and it has been introduce at PoFear time. Who care's about mezm & who will now spend 30K on this spell? I did and do not find any use, really.
In conclusion:
Illusion = Low level (20<40 range as Chaos stated. For example, Air Illusion +% critic spells does not stack with Shamy Godly conversion, point raised on June and confirmed by staff:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3655 )
Charm: Besides ToV Legs and outside of ToV...you wont charm again.
Donor charm: I asked some donor and they, except PoAir, cant use them because no interesting pet/no pet at all.
Mezm: no use, everything up to T6 is "tankable" when you have the stuff. We do not have 40K hit /Quad / flurry mobs mezzable? This would lead to get mandatory chanty in the raid to succeed. But we definitly would have if the char becomes fun. I.E We need tank to tank! We need healers to heal! Why not need a Chanty to mezm?
Fact: Shaman > Enchanters in both buffs/debuffs. (Mana is not an issue for many classes = healers, it can be an issue for Nukers (wizard speaking here and appreciate the true thought spell). Wizards are not the majority of DPs on THF as we all know that DPS is melees+procs.
Proposed solution:
Give some fun to enchanter:
Charmable and interesting mobs in every single zone T2+ up to last tier and without being obliged to grab a donor weap.
Group buffs such as Group version of Godly conversion (Chanty would > shaman at least on 1 buff).
Create new group buffs enchanters only (Is it possible to create line of spells - group spells - of line of focus such as chaotic / true / Dark (distance / enhancement etc.....)
Make use of Mezmerize spells sometimes, inevitable?
I repeat that I know since nearly 2 years that the staff is working hard on improving our pleasure on a daily basis and I really thank them for all this hard work for my/our own pleasure.
I hope that Enchanters will be looked at in the next months - We can also re-open a topic on Enchanter modification/changes on the class balance subforum.
As Kron said about me some time ago on a joke's note: "you have to give him credit for not giving up".
I never gave up with wizard's upgrade because I love my wizard. On the other hand, I just switched my enchanter for a shaman long time ago because lack of attention/interest & efficiency in a group. I did not find the wish to handle the same "fight" for the chanty than for my wizards (just see the number of posts and parses on Wizards topics on the forum).
So I hope enchanters will be looked at, otherwise, I will still play other chars (8 diff)
BR
Loly.
Re: I give up: Encs have no pets in high level zones.
I think adding custom high end illusion spells with interesting bonuses would help chanters become beneficial in group and raid settings. Here are some examples....
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Deathfist
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Orc
2: Effect Type: Increase AC by 100(L) to 350(L70)
3: Effect Type: Increase Agro Multiplier by 10%
4: Effect Type: Add Proc: Tremor
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Tower
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Lava Giant
2: Effect Type: Increase Effective Casting Level by 10
3: Effect Type: Increase Critical Spell Chance by 6%
4: Effect Type: Increase Mana Regen by 10
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Marksman
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Kyv
2: Effect Type: Increase Chance to Hit With All Skills by 50%
3: Effect Type: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 20%
4: Effect Type: Increase AC by -30%
These are just some ideas. Finally, someone thought of a buff that would help ranged DPS!!
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Deathfist
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Orc
2: Effect Type: Increase AC by 100(L) to 350(L70)
3: Effect Type: Increase Agro Multiplier by 10%
4: Effect Type: Add Proc: Tremor
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Tower
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Lava Giant
2: Effect Type: Increase Effective Casting Level by 10
3: Effect Type: Increase Critical Spell Chance by 6%
4: Effect Type: Increase Mana Regen by 10
Spell: Chaotic Illusion of the Marksman
1: Effect Type: Illusion: Kyv
2: Effect Type: Increase Chance to Hit With All Skills by 50%
3: Effect Type: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 20%
4: Effect Type: Increase AC by -30%
These are just some ideas. Finally, someone thought of a buff that would help ranged DPS!!
Antihero - Founder of <Dark Redemption>
Dark Redemption....Eating uber guild leftovers since 2010!
Dark Redemption....Eating uber guild leftovers since 2010!
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