Issues with Unrest

[Nerva]

There are two main problems with Unrest as it stands right now.

The first big issue (and boy is it ever), is that Ogres and Trolls (and maybe Barbarians too) suffer in Unrest's cramped quarters. They're forced to crouch to get through most of the halls indoors, which makes things difficult for them - they cannot fight while crouched and must fleed to a room with a higher ceiling. If you don't know how to manually duck, an Ogre or Troll can get trapped in Stanley the Manley's room, unable to get out the staircase due to a low ceiling in the way.

I realize you probably can't adjust the map much, but what you can do is have one of the zone quest NPCs detect when a member of a "large race" (Ogre, Troll, Barbarian) is talking to him, and have that NPC hand over a custom clicky item that does nothing but shrink the user, in order to make navigating and fighting within Unrest easier. This way, everyone can enjoy Unrest properly, not just those who are under 7' 6".

The other big problem with Unrest is that there's a couple named spellcasting NPCs, Stanley the Manley and Purity the Easy in particular, who throw around buffs and heals when you're fighting other NPCs in the building. Now this wouldn't be a problem, except that they cast through walls, floors, and ceilings to do it..

I had a crazy fight inside Unrest where Stanley the Manley dropped a heal on Master Cuddles the Executioner, despite the latter being in the execution room in the basement, and the former being on one of the building's uppermost floors!, and in several situations I've wound up taking way more damage than I should have in a fight because Purity the Easy put a damage shield on my opponent just prior to battle. Needless to say, this is really irritating.

Now, yeah, I'll admit that you could make the argument that it leads to some strategy in how you go around killing named mobs - do you really want to just blitz Chaos the Tactician, knowing that he's in casting range of Purity and Stanley, without killing the other two first? But the problem here is, these NPCs are capable of behavior a player can't match. If you attempt to cast on another player that you don't have line-of-sight to, you get an error message. These NPCs should rightfully be limited the same way. They're already formidable by virtue of being named NPCs in a low-level zone, before most players have many tools for dealing with such. The idea of them passively buffing and healing each other adds unecessary aggravation. Is it possible to remove the offending spells? Or limit them to only casting on the NPCs in their respective rooms?

I believe these two changes, taken together, would really help this otherwise fantastic and well-designed zone. This is important, since Unrest is one of the first zones a new player to the game will experience, and aside from these two issues has a fairly smooth progression for virtually all classes and combinations thereof.

Thanks for your time; I know this post is a bit of a wall of text, so if you've had the patience to read it through completely, I appreciate it.

[Mikuz]

Ok thanks for the feedback we'll take it into consideration.

Shrink item dropping from zone trash outside of the mansion somewhere or a mid quest reward before entering the mansion is required may be the answer.

Casters casting through walls will have to do some testing this may be solved by a seperate faction or aggro range change.

Due to the nature of the zone build im not sure how pathing effects unrest but this would in theory correct the LoS casting through walls because the npcs respect walls if pathing maps are detailed correctly. Iirc Unrest mansion is not that solid and allows npcs to see and aggro through walls regardless of pathing. Like i mentioned testing needed on that aspect.

It is unrest and a starter zone and if the casting through walls with buffs and heals are going to be an issue then be prepared to have issues with every single zone on the server. However this being a starter zone ill try to remedy something to help the new guys out. Higher zones will just have to tolerate this until a server wide rev fix is implemented someday.

[striat]

First let me say that I will fix the issue regarding Line of Sight. If I'm not mistaken, LoS in unrest is and always has been horrible. I'm certainly capable of adding a z axis check or some hack that will force an apparent Line of Sight though without it being sloppy or looking unprofessional. The current problem is time. I can't give your an ETA. It may be a few days or it could be up to 2 weeks.

Also, I didn't realize the size issue was a big deal. Enforcing size restrictions to the zone would be my method of choice. As a player, if you zone in and your natural height is 8, you'd just be restricted to a max of 5 to help you better fit in the zone. I'm not 100% crazy about this idea, but it seems like the best solution to me.

[Topsy]

could just make it an ogre / troll free zone.

[Brontu]

could just make it an ogre / troll free zone.

Racist!

[Banderas]

could just make it an ogre / troll free zone.

I second that :p

[Nerva]

First let me say that I will fix the issue regarding Line of Sight. If I'm not mistaken, LoS in unrest is and always has been horrible. I'm certainly capable of adding a z axis check or some hack that will force an apparent Line of Sight though without it being sloppy or looking unprofessional. The current problem is time. I can't give your an ETA. It may be a few days or it could be up to 2 weeks.

Also, I didn't realize the size issue was a big deal. Enforcing size restrictions to the zone would be my method of choice. As a player, if you zone in and your natural height is 8, you'd just be restricted to a max of 5 to help you better fit in the zone. I'm not 100% crazy about this idea, but it seems like the best solution to me.

Take all the time you need. I would honestly rather have a quality solution than one that's clunky and only half-works. I've seen far too many servers running around with code that bears more resemblance to a Frankenstein's Monster than a functioning game system.

The size issue solution sounds solid, but I'm a little concerned - by "size restriction," just what do you mean? Would characters that are too big be restricted from entering the zone? (Terribly unfair to Ogres and Trolls, since fully clearing Unrest is the most reliable way of getting a full set of epic 1.0 armor in THF) Or would they just be forced to shrink to a more manageable height upon entering? The latter, IMO, would be a much better solution - it's just a matter of finding the largest size variable that can comfortably navigate Unrest, and setting Ogres and Trolls to that. I've noticed that the Ogre and Troll Affliction Guards in unrest are appropriately sized for their terrain - maybe you can extrapolate from their NPC info some way?

Ok thanks for the feedback we'll take it into consideration.

Shrink item dropping from zone trash outside of the mansion somewhere or a mid quest reward before entering the mansion is required may be the answer.

This would be a nice short-term solution until striat's longer-term fix is implemented.

It is unrest and a starter zone and if the casting through walls with buffs and heals are going to be an issue then be prepared to have issues with every single zone on the server. Higher zones will just have to tolerate this until a server wide rev fix is implemented someday.

While higher zones do suffer from mobs casting and aggroing through walls, it's a lot more bearable there because they're higher level zones, and players have many more tools for dealing with their particular pathing/LoS issues. In short, they can wait. Unrest is just particularly bad because it's a low-level zone, and it's likely to be one of the first a new player visits. I appreciate that you're willing to take extra steps to ensure that new players get a good first impression of the place.

Due to the nature of the zone build im not sure how pathing effects unrest but this would in theory correct the LoS casting through walls because the npcs respect walls if pathing maps are detailed correctly. Iirc Unrest mansion is not that solid and allows npcs to see and aggro through walls regardless of pathing. Like i mentioned testing needed on that aspect.

If you need help with testing, I'd be happy to lend a hand. Just let me know where and how I can help.

Also, I apologize; I really should have posted this thread in the correct section. If a moderator would be kind enough to move it for me (if they feel it's necessary), I'd appreciate it.

[Thenrin]

Personally, I didn't have any issues playing my troll in Unrest, and that as my first character on the server, without any Donator items of any sort. If you choose to go Large or Small, you take the good and the bad. We choose the race we play, same as class.

As far as the assist through walls, players can cast heals and other beneficial spells without line of sight, and the ability to do so, for both players and mobs, has been around since the beginning on live servers. It's going to be around in later zones throughout the game,the first zones are the training grounds for later.

Honestly, I don't think changes of the nature discussed above are truly necessary or even desirable.

[kaelee]

Personally, I didn't have any issues playing my troll in Unrest, and that as my first character on the server, without any Donator items of any sort. If you choose to go Large or Small, you take the good and the bad. We choose the race we play, same as class.

As far as the assist through walls, players can cast heals and other beneficial spells without line of sight, and the ability to do so, for both players and mobs, has been around since the beginning on live servers. It's going to be around in later zones throughout the game,the first zones are the training grounds for later.

Honestly, I don't think changes of the nature discussed above are truly necessary or even desirable.

agreed. End game stat wise there isnt one race that has an advantage over another. You an ogre? have trouble in a zone? get an illusion or shrink item. problem solved

[Banderas]

Agreed as well. I have leveled many toons there, including big races, and I don't think these changes are needed.