Fevarn, The Omniscient

[Nilbus]

Ugly halfling is redundant, much like sexy gnome is.

[Blique]

But, i would like to see the highest tier content off the wiki until the next tier comes out. Beating the current endgame fights are not about building a character. There is no building after that. You build chars to beat endgame content. Beating that stuff is final challenge and should be that, a challenge. If all details of the fight are known, a lot (but not all) of that challenge is removed.
Sticky

First, let me preface this, by saying that I understand what you are saying.

But let me throw my point of view out there:

I play this game entirely to build, the same way I do when I build cars/engines. You build it, put blood sweat and tears into it, and then you take her out and see how she runs. Then you tune it a bit, and take her out and see how she runs again. Rinse and repeat. As you get better parts, a hotter roller cam, or better ratio roller rockers, or a hotter ignition, or a new fuel air curve, or higher lb/hour injectors, you tune it again, and you take it out and run it. Its that which I enjoy most about THF, and MMO gaming in general - building it and making it more and better than it was before. Its not a competition with anyone but myself, to "build it better/faster/stronger than it was before" - and to get better and smarter at building it.

(insert random "six million dollar man" reference here - yeah I know, I'm showing my age...sigh)

Generally, if theres nothing to be gained from killing a raidmob, I don't kill it. I look at what drops what, and if it doesn't drop something that makes it "run better of faster" I don't kill it. Challenge while somewhat important, is completely secondary, and sometimes tertiary. From that standpoint, raid bosses are entirely about building my toons and those of my guildies, first and foremost. Thats no less valid or legitimate a way of enjoying the game than any other, though I understand not everyone plays for those reasons.

As far as the challenge goes, even if you DO know how the t8 encounters work, theyre still a challenge. Knowing how they work, and successfully executing the things you need to to beat those encounters, are two very very different thing, and not everyone runs MQ or isboxxer to help with that successful execution. In fact, I would wager that without isboxxer and/or MQ, nobody would be boxing zenurix for example...at least not in any way that I would consider "fun".

I just can't view strats as super secret like some folks do. If it were live play, with 3-6 day respawns, and ten thousand plus players , and 24 hour a day call lists, and the raid bottle, and dkp/mandatory attendence, I might feel differently. But then again, if I wanted that, I'd go back to the stress of doing that on live, rather than having fun on THF.

[Micah]

My 2cps ...

The wiki is player contribution, so if a player wants to put t8 strats it is up to you guys. No one forces anyone to read that section of the wiki anyhow.

Me? I wouldn't read it and I would figure it out myself, YMMV. But I don't feel the GMs should be "censoring" the wiki information (except for exploits or cheats).

[Dellanx]

My intent for starting this post was to refresh my memory what he basically does, ie., Stun / Mana Drain / Debuff in general terms, not to get the Strat. As far as what he drops, really don't matter to me. If I cant use it my Guildies most likely can.

To quote the Matrix, One of these days when I have the time, I will run in there and try him, and see "How deep the rabbit hole goes"

[techspec6]

I agree with Blique and Micah.

They pretty much covered what I was going to say. Information should be free and not restricted so that whomever wishes to read it, can. I'm surprised that so many EA folk have such a strong unified stance on the subject. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Warbeat
<Chiron>

[Warlgor]

I personally find it insulting to the people who put in all that work to create the encounters, and it's insulting to the people who had to do it with no one able to tell them how to beat it, whether they were the first people or the seventeeth. Guilds change, and players switch guilds, and the strats get fed out to others based on these circumstances (and others) regardless of whether it's on the wiki, and I get that. But making it available online at the click of a button rather than just happenstance is too much.

t7? sure, it's not endgame content. I'm not a fan of it being on the wiki, but it's not the highest tier and it's been out since 2010, and the strategies can be found with a quick /ooc regardless.

t8? That's a little different. Like Stickybuds said, it's the end game, it's not about character building, because once you've beat it, you have nothing to build from. Maybe it's personal frustration or old fashioned raiding mentality, but the last level of content available should be difficult to beat, and making the strats public trivializes a lot of the encounters. These aren't tank and spank fights. 75% of the difficulty is in figuring out what the hell is going on.

Call me an bad person but that's my honest opinion on the matter. I'm not the grand overlord of the wiki and I have no say in what gets put on there, but it's how I feel.

/rant off! I promise.

[Melkor]

To answer why EA feels this way is simple. We have spent many hours figuring out the fight and perfecting our strategies. We didn't have people to ask, wikis to look at or .pl files to examine and I feel that other people should have to go threw the same thing to earn their loot.

I know some of you disagree with me 100% and don't understand my opinion and I completely understand why. People who tend to be more competitive and/or hardcore about raiding tend to be more secretive about strats and those who are less competitive and/or softcore could care less. I also understand that strats leak over time and there is nothing I nor anyone who shares the same opinion can do about it. But, I'm not sure why there is an argument about it. Why can't the strategies be left off the wiki to make those who are secretive about strats happy? At least for the highest tier in the game. If you want to know the strategies, ask someone in /tells.

[techspec6]

Warlgor,

I would hope that the devs aren't insulted that players on THF are having fun with the content their developing. Having the information available on the wiki doesn't hurt anyone. Nobody should have less fun on the server based on what others are able to kill. The idea that your suffering because others can read strategies on a wiki and attempt the same fights is absurd. You're post are boarding on elitism. I never though that of you prior to this last post. Please take a step back and reconsider how much passion you're putting into this topic. It's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. THF isn't going to suddenly stop being fun.

EAs reward for downing end game bosses is being known for just that. They don't own the rights to the strategies just because they were first. Next time you guys server first a boss, keep that in mind.

Warbeat
<Chiron>

[Warlgor]

They don't own the rights to the strategies just because they were first. Next time you guys server first a boss, keep that in mind.

I never claimed to own the rights to anything, nor do I feel that way. I think that everyone who puts in an honest effort owns the right to what they have rightfully killed. I think, that by feeding strategies, you're robbing the people that get fed the fun of figuring out an encounter.

I'm sorry if you think differently of me but that's my honest opinion, and I foresee this thread being locked very soon since it's slowly degrading into personal attacks.

[Blique]

t8? That's a little different. Like Stickybuds said, it's the end game, it's not about character building, because once you've beat it, you have nothing to build from.

What its about, whether that be character building, or enjoying the challenge, is defined and decided by strictly and solely by each individual involved in killing that mob. That means I don't get to define or decide that for you, and you don't get to define or decide that for me.


I reject any notion to the contrary, with prejudice.

The idea that "it's the end game, it's not about character building, because once you've beat it, you have nothing to build from" is only true if you get every single item that you're looking to get, for every single toon you're looking to get this or that item on, raid wide, in one single kill.

Clearly, that is not reality. That, or xeru is bugged because hes not dropping 50 sets of shoulders, 35 shields, 50 augs and 50 range item illusion clickies. That, and NV would have zenurix and chaos all to ourselves, since two other guilds have killed it, and "have nothing to build from".

Again, clearly, this is not reality.

"Why can't the strategies be left off the wiki to make those who are secretive about strats happy?"

I'm going to be very blunt here:

You have every right not to want YOUR strats leaked. Don't leak them then. Your strats stay your strats, and you should be happy. But because you've beaten an encounter first, doesn't give you ownership rights to all info about that encounter, nor does it give you any authority or jurisdiction over the strats of others, or the information others have gleaned from strats.

Nor should it.

The strats of others, aren't yours to have say over one way or the other, nor should they be.

Any notion to the contrary, is presumptuousness of the worst kind.


"I think, that by feeding strategies, you're robbing the people that get fed the fun of figuring out an encounter."

Nobody makes anyone read the wiki. People are robbing themselves, at the worst. if you don't want to know, don't go looking for info.