Upcoming Cleric Donor 1.0 Weapon Change

[Stickybuds]

While the change will effect this particular encounter the most (speaking about creeping doom), going from 1 click to 9 as Melkor states, the recast delay is only 10seconds for the donor 1.0 click. You can still pretty much spam it to throw out AE cures/heals for any other encounter or mob that dots you.

All in all i think its a good change. It, along with the 2.0 counterpart, are still the very best healing power clicky items in game by a large amount.

[Blique]

I need to ask, because this just isn't adding up.

Reasoning:
Based on feedback we have received and looking into the spells ourselves, the AoE cure allows too much ability to mitigate debuffs that require cures. While we did not want to "nerf" the donor 1.0 to continue to allow optimal playing styles, we strongly felt something needed to be done to address the issue. So our thoughts with dropping the cure counters is to still allow the click to be useful as an AoE heal and a cure, but to limit the curing abilities to a more manageable level.

That was the reasoning you stated in the OP, which made sense at that time. But then the following issue was raised, and you stated you were going to change it:

"5 : Effect type : Remove Detrimental" will remove spells like creeping doom regardless of weather or not it has 2000 counters or 1 left.

The above is being removed from the cleric donor 1.0, correct? (or is it that youre changing creeping doom so that it wont be effected by "remove detrimental?)

Either way, that particular component of the clicky effect is what was removing the zenurix curse, with a single cast, correct?

If the above is correct, why lower the curse counter removal on it to less than half what the cleric group heal does, on top of eliminating "remove detrimental", being that the "remove counters" component doesnt appear to have been the culprit in the first place?



I do not understand this. At All.

[Vaion]

The remove detrimental is not being removed from the donor click. The Creeping Doom Curse was never meant to be instantly dispelled by a spell with remove detrimental. The curse was designed to force players to cure the curse counters (50 total).

As stated, the 1.0 is having the counters it can cure lowered because it has the ability to heal numerous people on raids at a time. Healing 6 people of 36 counters (donor 2.0) is a lot different than healing up to 72 people for 18 counters (now lowered to 6).

The change was not done solely with the Creeping Doom curse in mind. There are a number of debuffs that use debuff counters to add difficulty to an event.

[Blique]

The remove detrimental is not being removed from the donor click. The Creeping Doom Curse was never meant to be instantly dispelled by a spell with remove detrimental. The curse was designed to force players to cure the curse counters (50 total).

As stated, the 1.0 is having the counters it can cure lowered because it has the ability to heal numerous people on raids at a time. Healing 6 people of 36 counters (donor 2.0) is a lot different than healing up to 72 people for 18 counters (now lowered to 6).

The change was not done solely with the Creeping Doom curse in mind. There are a number of debuffs that use debuff counters to add difficulty to an event.

I understand that the Creeping Doom Curse was never meant to be instantly dispelled by a spell with remove detrimental. I can totally understand that. And I understand that the 1.0 has the ability to heal/cure numerous people on raids at a time. Totally. I understand also, what you're saying about this not being done strictly with creeping doom in mind, although I can't think of many curse type spells prior to it that are...of the same magnitude in their effect, or their need to be cured. While there may be other curse spells, the effect of lowering the counter removal on the 1.0 so low, disproportionately efffects curse type spells like creeping doom that must be cured "now" versus curses like fennin does that you can just heal through, and go hail sune for a cure after you zone back to the forest. Logically, these changes leave the cleric 1.0 useful in the lower tiers, but not very viable in the higher tiers. Sure its useful, but if theres two to choose from, and you're going to choose one of the two and have augging in mind rather than swapping naked weapons based on what youre going to be doing, it isn't even a choice after these changes - at least post t6.

Just out of curiosity, on which encounter, was the curse counter removal actually the "offending ability"? It would help with understanding the changes, if I could see and understand what encounters specifically, where curse counter removal is/was a problem that is being fixxed by making them.

[mukkel]

The remove detrimental is not being removed from the donor click. The Creeping Doom Curse was never meant to be instantly dispelled by a spell with remove detrimental. The curse was designed to force players to cure the curse counters (50 total).

As stated, the 1.0 is having the counters it can cure lowered because it has the ability to heal numerous people on raids at a time. Healing 6 people of 36 counters (donor 2.0) is a lot different than healing up to 72 people for 18 counters (now lowered to 6).

The change was not done solely with the Creeping Doom curse in mind. There are a number of debuffs that use debuff counters to add difficulty to an event.

I understand that the Creeping Doom Curse was never meant to be instantly dispelled by a spell with remove detrimental. I can totally understand that. And I understand that the 1.0 has the ability to heal/cure numerous people on raids at a time. Totally. I understand also, what you're saying about this not being done strictly with creeping doom in mind, although I can't think of many curse type spells prior to it that are...of the same magnitude in their effect, or their need to be cured. While there may be other curse spells, the effect of lowering the counter removal on the 1.0 so low, disproportionately efffects curse type spells like creeping doom that must be cured "now" versus curses like fennin does that you can just heal through, and go hail sune for a cure after you zone back to the forest. Logically, these changes leave the cleric 1.0 useful in the lower tiers, but not very viable in the higher tiers. Sure its useful, but if theres two to choose from, and you're going to choose one of the two and have augging in mind rather than swapping naked weapons based on what youre going to be doing, it isn't even a choice after these changes - at least post t6.

Just out of curiosity, on which encounter, was the curse counter removal actually the "offending ability"? It would help with understanding the changes, if I could see and understand what encounters specifically, where curse counter removal is/was a problem that is being fixxed by making them.

The 1.0 is still viable in higher tiers as well. The AoE heal ability of the 1.0 is enough to warrant it being "spammed". The only difference is that it won't AoE heal and remove all ailments on every character around the cleric now. It was just too game breaking and would ensure that any future content created would be nullified by one item. Keep in mind you can still bring 4-5 clerics to the raid and spam that thing to your hearts content and it'll essentially do the same thing.

As for the events - it trivialized Zenurix and Chaos to the point of ridiculousness since Creeping Doom is a large part of both events.

/fitz

[Noren]

As for the events - it trivialized Zenurix and Chaos to the point of ridiculousness since Creeping Doom is a large part of both events.

I have to point out that it was the dispellable tag on creeping doom that trivialized Zenurix and the Chaos. With the curse tagged as dispellable, the cleric epic shield, radiant cure, donor weapons 1.0 and 2.0 could all remove it in one click. Once changed, neither cleric donor weapon will be able to keep even a single group cured 100%.

[Warlgor]

For quite some time doing this fight I didn't have either donor weapon on my cleric, and had no issues curing the curse with word of vivification and webtools/items.php?id=121117 . And yes, you previously could cure it instantly, but only if you had a cleric in your group. The fact that one cleric can keep an entire raid force cured every 10 seconds is ridiculous, to be honest

[Tyhanna]

I don't think anyone is asking for instant cure, but having a donor one would think it would do a bit better than having to cast it 9 times to cure a dot. Which makes the donor out of the question to use now for the Zenu fight other than for the aoe heal.
Its great if you have a cleric or pally in each grp to cure the dot but that is not possible when you have as many as 7 grps or more in zone. I didnt think anyone used word of vivication any more, I know I dont. Using Word of Strategy it has the the curse counter of 18, and I believe it would cure it in 2 casts but I may be wrong with that it might have been 3 times. I was just spamming the spell so Im not sure. I dont do any outside party macros, only ingame simple macros.
Changing the curse counter on the donor to 6 is a bit drastic IMO. I guess if your are two grping the encounter like I know some do maybe it wont be a huge problem, but for those of us that take as many as 7 grps or more in with the max of 4-5 clerics and 1 pally, it presents a much more complicated and difficult situtation to keep all toons alive.

We have up till just this last week didnt have the 1.0 on any of the clerics and were doing it the other ways of healing. It caused much frustration and it just wasnt very fun at all to do the encounter.

Its is not an option for me to switch my 1.0 back to the 2.0, so I will be left with using word of strategy. The way I understand all this the shield won't work now to remove the dot. Am I correct in my thinking? This makes it pretty limiting to get that dot off in a very short period of time.

I guess the question comes to mind, why have a donor weapon that was made to heal and cure a large amount of people and then not beable use it for what it was made to do in all lvls of play. And again Im not saying it should be an instant cure but it should be able to cure in a respectable amount of casts. 9 cast or 90 seconds is not going to cure anything in the short period of time given to do it. Even if we have the 3 clerics that have the 1.0 spamming the 1.0 in perfect timing that might not even do it. So for those grps that have no healer that can cure the dot it will be almost impossible to get them cured.

[Stickybuds]

I understand that 6 is a low number, but i want to point out again the cooldown is only 10 seconds and its AE raid heal/cure.

There are already multiple other ways to be reducing the dot counters for each group in the raid via radiant cure, word of viv clicky item for druids/shms, word of strategy or viv for clerics, cleric epic 2.0. And on top of all that, if you have that donor 1.0, you are AE curing all groups in the raid every 10 seconds.

6 is low, but 10 sec CD is low too. and its not the only means of curing.

Regards,
Sticky

[Blique]

"The 1.0 is still viable in higher tiers as well."

Its viable on encounters that aren't really important anymore, and are trivial anyway.

On important encounters, encounters that aren't so trivial, it becomes a case of "If I use this (the donor 1.0), people are going to die because I'm NOT using that (cleric group heal). So the better option, still, is to use the donor 2.0, or just get the donor wrist that gathers 40k mana every 2 minutes with an instant cast and use cleric group heals indefinitely and never run oom.

None of which really changes this simple fact:

Something that works only under circumstances where it isnt that important for it to work,
and doesn't work in situations where the need is critical for it to work, by definition can not be "viable".

Is a fire extinguisheer that only works when there isn't a fire, or a cellphone that only has coverage when you aren't trying to make or recieve calls "viable"?