Upcoming Cleric Donor 1.0 Weapon Change

[yaeger]

Who says it's critical that things need to be cured inside the clicky global refresh time of one item?

Stop boxing a healer and PLAY one! You'd know there are many different ways to skin this cat. There are so many group cure spells out there that can be cast on top of the Donor 1.0 it's ridiculous.

[Firenze]

quit arguing , 1.0 is just elite even w/o any cure on it.

[Melkor]

Who says it's critical that things need to be cured inside the clicky global refresh time of one item?

Stop boxing a healer and PLAY one! You'd know there are many different ways to skin this cat. There are so many group cure spells out there that can be cast on top of the Donor 1.0 it's ridiculous.

This.

Plus I fail to see how an AoE 20k+ heal that removes counters and does a remove detrimental every ten seconds isn't amazing. Add 1 or 2 clerics with it and its
very amazing. Don't a lot of t8 bosses wild rampage or has that been removed? If they do, its very useful for that portion of fights.


Also, I see why GMs hate changing donors

[mukkel]

SPOILER ALERT!

Remove Greater Curse

Problem solved! It's what we do and we've been farming these a LOT longer than anyone else, you should try it too!

/fitz

[Blique]

Who says it's critical that things need to be cured inside the clicky global refresh time of one item?

Stop boxing a healer and PLAY one! You'd know there are many different ways to skin this cat. There are so many group cure spells out there that can be cast on top of the Donor 1.0 it's ridiculous.

Thats a very good question. Who IS saying that? Not I. If I've mentioned any timeframe at all, it was 30 seconds - the time it takes for creeping doom to kill a toon if not cured. Perhaps, if indeed someone IS saying that things need to be cured within the clicky global refresh time of one item, I would submit that your issue is with whoever is saying that, rather than myself, who isn't, and hasn't.

How many group cure spells are there between paladin and cleric? If you don't count all the spells in each line, and just count the top one, I mean. I'm not asking that to be a smart ass, I'm asking because before THF, and before the last few months, I never played a healer. Mostly because I'd rather be smeared with bacon grease in a bear park while taking a bath with an electric toaster while gouging my eyes out with blunt salt crystals, than play a healer class as a main. But thats neither here nor there lol.

quit arguing , 1.0 is just elite even w/o any cure on it.

I never said it wasn't nice. I never said it wasn't elite. But, nice, and "elite" ≠ viable.

Plus I fail to see how an AoE 20k+ heal that removes counters and does a remove detrimental every ten seconds isn't amazing. Add 1 or 2 clerics with it and its very amazing. Don't a lot of t8 bosses wild rampage or has that been removed? If they do, its very useful for that portion of fights.

Oh, I never said that wasn't amazing. But again, amazing ≠ viable. Like I said, Something that works effectively only under circumstances where it isnt that important for it to work, and doesn't work in situations where the need is critical for it to work, by definition can not be "viable". A ZL-1 Corvette or Camaro (somewhat OT, but you younger folks that might not be familiar with them, look it up, they're some of the most powerful vehicles ever sold on a dealership floor, and made to race - didnt even come with a spare tire, jack, trunk splatter paint, a radio or a heater, and they came with e-70 14 tires, because it was expected that anyone that was buying one, would be putting slicks on it lol) with only three wheels is still quite an amazing machine. But with three wheels it isn't going to get you to the end of the strip.


Amazing ≠ viable. Plain, simple, unrefutable fact.

Feel free to jump in and correct me here - making it not useful in situations where you'd most want/need it, is entirely the point of making the changes to it , is it not? I accept that changes are being made to it, though I think the changes are a bit drastic, considering that changes are being made to the curse counter removal, something that never played a part in the zenurix or chaos encounters - not even a single time. It was the "remove detremental" which was removing the curse in a single cast, as Noren pointed out, and everyone seems to be overlooking. If thats something I shouldn't be commenting on, someone please let me know why, and I'll be happy to refrain from it.

Remove Greater Curse

I'm aware of it. We used to use it in SRRA temple alot back in the day, amongst other places. We were using it in zenurix as well.

I'm sorry if I'm rubbing you guys the wrong way, its not my intention. I'm just not the sort of person to sugar coat things, or call things something they aren't for any reason, or anyone. Not necessarily popular or appreciated behavior in this day and age, I know.

[Tyhanna]

Who says it's critical that things need to be cured inside the clicky global refresh time of one item?

Stop boxing a healer and PLAY one! You'd know there are many different ways to skin this cat. There are so many group cure spells out there that can be cast on top of the Donor 1.0 it's ridiculous.

My main is a cleric Tantianne, so im not boxing a healer and Im the main healer and have been for over 2 years. I dont use MQ for macros, I use basic in game macros.
The big deal here is the dot we are talking about has a very short time to be cured, it has a counter of 50. Now what are all these group cures spells you are talking about? and what is the cure counter on them? and what is the recast timer on them? The shield is detremental, not curse. the grp cure works for only the grp of course, so what about those grps that dont have a curse healer in them?
.

[Stickybuds]

dont forget the event yall are talking about is a difficult end game fight. You can't waltz in with any group and expect to beat it. You need to come prepared, that means...

1)having appropriate healers in group that can cure the debuff
2)said healers need a large mana pool, which they should have if geared up in T8 gear before coming to this point
3)a means of restoring mana quickly if you run out

If you dont have enough mana, or are trying to use one of the 10sec cast time mana restore items, you are not well enough prepared for this fight. (there is an instant cast mana restore item from nadox)

And if you're not a cleric like me, you cure as much as you can until you cant keep up and then that person dies and you keep going.

I still feel the donor is useful in all situations. It's just not an easy raid wide cure for this fight anymore.

[Tyhanna]

we really do know what is needed, we have been killing him without the benifit of the 1.0 up until a few days ago. All our clerics are very well geared and all have the mana gather clicky from nadox that is 10 seconds cast time.

The point im trying to make is the 1.0 is no longer a tool to be used in that fight. What is the point of having it if its not useful in a wide range of high end. My argument is it should still be useful, but I agree it shouldnt be an instant cure eather. The cure counter is way to low. 9 cast of the 1.0 to cure the dot is not reasonable I dont think. But at the end of the day its up to Vaion and I respect that. Its just to bad I cant go back to the 2.0 now and have the better healing and the better cure counter that is on it for my grp.

[mukkel]

Who says it's critical that things need to be cured inside the clicky global refresh time of one item?

Stop boxing a healer and PLAY one! You'd know there are many different ways to skin this cat. There are so many group cure spells out there that can be cast on top of the Donor 1.0 it's ridiculous.

My main is a cleric Tantianne, so im not boxing a healer and Im the main healer and have been for over 2 years. I dont use MQ for macros, I use basic in game macros.
The big deal here is the dot we are talking about has a very short time to be cured, it has a counter of 50. Now what are all these group cures spells you are talking about? and what is the cure counter on them? and what is the recast timer on them? The shield is detremental, not curse. the grp cure works for only the grp of course, so what about those grps that dont have a curse healer in them?
.

Just going to list some facts:

Creeping Doom has a 36 second timer.

Word of Vivication can be cast every 7 seconds (casttime + recovery) and cures 14 curse counters. (unhasted)

A cleric could cast this 5 times in 36 seconds, removing 70 curse counts. Something that at this level of play should be sustainable all day long. Word of Strategy is even better, obviously.

Now, you raised the point of the other healers. ALL healers have the ability to remove curse. Remove Greater Curse, which removes 45 curse counters. This can be cast pretty much every 4-5 seconds with spell haste. Throw on a donor 1.0 for some additional flavour and that will kick all of the RGC cures over the edge.

Ignoring the decursive part of the donor. I know of loads of events that do lots of aoe damage. I'm sure this won't stop - heck, you should be familiar enough with them on the zenurix mini's. The donor in those situations shines and is fantastic since it will heal your whole raid.

/fitz

[Blique]

dont forget the event yall are talking about is a difficult end game fight. You can't waltz in with any group and expect to beat it. You need to come prepared, that means...

1)having appropriate healers in group that can cure the debuff
2)said healers need a large mana pool, which they should have if geared up in T8 gear before coming to this point
3)a means of restoring mana quickly if you run out

If you dont have enough mana, or are trying to use one of the 10sec cast time mana restore items, you are not well enough prepared for this fight. (there is an instant cast mana restore item from nadox)

And if you're not a cleric like me, you cure as much as you can until you cant keep up and then that person dies and you keep going.

I still feel the donor is useful in all situations. It's just not an easy raid wide cure for this fight anymore.

Which item from nadox is instant cast gather? The entropic orb is ten seconds, and unless I'm forgetting something, the only instant cast one drops off Zenurix itself. If theres an instant cast one from nadox, we have literally never seen it drop. Not a single time. Are you thinking of the one with the complete heal click thats instant cast possibly? To my knowledge an instant cast gather item does not exist at all, other than the one Zenurix drops, and the donor wrist.

FWIW, tanti has about 54k mana raidbuffed, not shabby. My cleric has around 45k. Unless its a new toon, or a fresh recruit, generally we don't mess around when it comes to gear. A couple of my wizards are semi new yet, and borderline, but even then theyre almost 40k, while the two that arent new are well over 40k/40k.

As far as it being usefull in all situations, I can see that to a point, but a single 1.0 in a raid on zenurix will be completely useless by virtue of never being used in the first place. If youre spamming it, youre not removing curses anywhere near effectively enough to stop people from dying from them, therefor you may as well not be clicking it at all. You as an individual will have far greater effect not casting it at all, and using your group heal instead. Sure, you could use it in some round about way having someone else cure your group. Maybe have a second healer in that group dealing with cures, but then...look at what youre doing - you're going out of your way to do things roundabout, depriving another group of a healer, just so you can click something thats less effective on that encounter, than your casted group heal; and single target cures. And theres the argument that youre just chipping away at it so that those casting GRC can get it in one cast. And the argument that multiple clerics with the 1.0 becme way more effective.

But then again, if "donor" and "chipping away" being used in the same sentence that way, and the idea of saying to other clerics in the guild "hey, get one of these so that mine becomes more effective" don't scream "wrong" like they would with just any other donor, nothing will.

As I've said, I get that removing the curse with a single cast was OP. Nobody in this thread is proposing that remain as it currently is. But I also get that its not the curse counter removal that was causing the curse to be removed in a single cast, and I really feel like nobody else has quite wrapped their brain around that fact other than Tanti and Noren. We seem to be the only ones saying "hey, wait a sec,whats being changed on the donor, wasn't even effecting the fights on zenurix and chaos at all, because the "remove detrimental" was removing the curse completely in a single cast all by itself".

I feel like that important detail is being completely ignored by the bandwagon jumpers.

Why is the curse counter removal component being messed with at all, being that the curse counter removal component has been basically inert up to this very minute on the fights it was supposedly trivializing? The thing - the ONLY thing - that has had any effect what so ever in removing the curse, from the time the donor was changed to AOE right up to this very minute, was the "remove detrimental".

Its almost like theres more interest in seeing this changed, than seeing the change make sense, and I really have to wonder just why that is. In the end, Vaion will change it as he sees fit, and I can respect that. I just hope its for the right reasons.