Server / Player Economy

Tell us what you think!

Poll: Removing No Drop tags off of Non boss loot up to tier 2

Great Idea
139
63%
Undecided
24
11%
Terrible Idea
58
26%
Total votes: 221

User avatar
Shanefpt
Posts: 119
Contact:

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#91 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:59 pm

Okay, first this is a bi-fold question/response.

A few key points to think of: I have been an EQer for many years. Started in closedBeta around the time I graduated High School, maybe late '98 early '99, and played for 7 years straight. I have also played WoW, JD, PWE, PWI, Diablo II, Ultima, and FW since. I have seen many a game economies and rise and fall of the games. Economy was the key factor in the retirement of many of the Legendary players in old EQ, myself included.

First off: In regards to no drop items, on the lower end of no-drop, yes absolutely, scrub it. There are many more reasons than I will name but here are just a few...

1. Forget about level 70 alts, everyone is talking about level 70 alts, simply what about the lower level characters that WANT to get better? I noticed there is already a certain amount of "progress blocking" here. It is a common complaint I have heard in various forums and was a common problem in old EQ as well.

2. I noticed everyone seems to be on this "Attunable" kick, yeah sounds great in theory, BUT [big but], won't this create a higher demand for higher levels to rape lower level zones repeatedly? I mean, the lesser the existance of an item the higher it's value. If the #1 guy on the server possesses something, passes it around his alts, gets bored with it, and finally sells it, then that is that many times he didn't rape the zone for the item. I see no benefit in making them attunable, however, contrarily, will create the condition of increased farming, which translates to more progression blockage.

3. In the case of character "X" that has been camping a mob for days, whether he sits vigilantly waiting for the spawn, or returns frequently to check, to get that drop he needs to complete a quest, or the weapon/accessory he desires. Character "X" finally gets his mobs, pulls it, and the long drawn out fight begins. He can kill it, in time. His scenario plays out nicely. It's health dwindles, 90%, 80% 70%... Here comes character "Z" a twinked out level 70 grandfathered in by his big brother's main, plvled to excellence. He "wants" the same drop that character "X" needs, how do you think this plays out? Character "Z" drops the mob in 3-4 hits, turns to X and scoffs "Better luck next time noob." This process repeats 5 or 6 times. What do you think will happen? Character "X" is going to curse everyone out in WC/OOC and delete his account. Everyone will be like "WTF?" and laugh as character "X" commits teen suicide. [Pardon the dramatics and my morbid sense of humor :) ] My point is that if saving a little money and buying the item were an option, there would be more than one way to satisfy the need for that gratification. One more happy player. The person selling may be able to afford the thing they wanted now. Two more happy players. The person he bought from experiences the same, three more, and so on and so on. People are consumers. If you sell it, they will buy.

4. Farming. In old EQ there was a cut off point, where once you were so many levels above a mob, it stopped dropping. They became trivial. This enabled lowbies a chance to farm things to sell to ther higher level characters, especially the Necromancers and Shadow Knights who required mats for spells. Things like bone chips and zombie skins. This type of thing boosts economy and the ability for Veteran/New players to interact. Not to mention it gave the lowbie something to sell. Forcing the poor to only consume will make the rich riched and stave the growth of the poor. Giving the poor something to sell the rich gives them the opportunity to progress.

5. Tradeskills. The old EQ game had a nice balance of difficulty vs usefulness for the tradeskills system. Also with some drops only appearing in some lower level zones, and being lootable by only lower level characters, but being necessary for higher level gear lended to its economic stability. It was when these caps were removed and intercontinental travel diversified that the lowbie zones became a rapefest and then the global hierarchy of elites was established creating a rift in fun factor and less to work for. Using the Tradeskill system in a profitable way, like it's original concept, is advisable for economic growth. Edit the information in various existing items that are basically useless in the game currently, like old school plate mail, chain, leather, and cloth armors. Make it so that the old recipes create an edited version of the gear, slightly better than the common drop stat gear (i.e. Defiant gear in Crushbone), thus making the crafting system desirable even for lower levels, but add in some great endgame content for the high end, however, make that content rely on materials created by lower end characters (again forcing a trade) or items farmed by level specific characters. I.E. For superplayer "X" to forge the "God's Hand Dragon Slayer" a 2Hs Claymore-like blade that is nearly completely illuminated by white light, he must get 2 or 3 items crafted by players, from mat drops in a level restricted zone/instance/quest. The higher level is happy because there is new content, the lower level is happy because of new content, the lower level feels important because he is being called for help from the higher level, giving him/her a sense of dedication and worth to his calling, the lower level is happy because he makes money to buy more things he needs, the higher level is happy because he gets to be the first with something cool and different. Everyone wins.

6. Accessory items, I think the best spot to start building on this would be accessory items since there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of them in the game right now. Also, these would probably be easier to do as well since the lack of graphics for most if not all of them. Earrings, Necklaces, Masks, Belts, Charms, Shoulders, Back, Augments [Adornments], Essences, Ammo, Clickables, etc... This also utilizes the full spectrum of character classes. Make some items only available from vendors in obscure cities, like Cabilis, this way a human will have to hire an Iksar or be a good rogue/illusionist to get it. Next, make it so an Enchanter must cant a certain spell over it using a certain scroll found in a specific area or sold in another location. Then require that you bathe the charmed object in Ogre blood or something. Now that piece is ready for Mr. Level 70 to add to his recipe. This is an essential to balancing the system.

Basically that is it, in a nutshell, BALANCE. Add content that is awesome for raiders, but NEAR-equal content available for solo-ers, spread the final product amongst levels creating something desirable for all, add some useful content for lewer levels, incorporate that content into the endgame content. This is the equation for a perfect economic patch.

The other thing would be the creation of some form of pricing protection. If the items are level 30 to 45 drops and will prove difficult to get, make it so that the NPC merchants buy that item for a decent sum, thus pressing the wealthier high levels to shell out some plat for it. Not everyone has the stubborn drive to create an alt everytime they want something. Most people aren't that cheap. This will sooth the laziness of MR. "I have 20 lvl 70's" and have completed evey task in game 5x, and the eagerness of the guy that just started playing.

Always remember, you'll never make everyone happy.

[Example Routine]
Place a few NPCs at different locs [not in obvious places for level 50+ zones, make them swim rivers and climb mountains, jumping across a ledge or two never hurt anyone], link it to a simple kind of quest, "Go there and kill "X" mobs, return to me afterward." [Of course increasing in difficulty, variation, and frequency for higher levels] Lets say that it is for a back item.

Level 1-20 quest, starting in Freeport
Kill 20 Mountain Lions
Reward "Cape of Dawn" AC 15 +5 stats

Level 20-40 Quest in Lower Guk
Reward "Cape of Ages: Pattern" AC 30 +10 stats +1 clicky

Level 40-60 Quest in Veksar
Reward "Cape of Ancients: Pattern" AC 45 +20 stats +1 clicky improved

Level 60-70 Quest in Wall of Slaughter
Reward "Cape of Aeons: Pattern" AC 70 +35 stats +2 clicky

For the initial item it is as is; but for each consecutive item the former is needed. Quest only given to players within the appropriate level range. So for "Cape of Ages" you need to posess "Cape of Dawn," a farmed medium to combine in forge, and a "Cape of Ages: PAttern" from the quest in Lower Guk. If you want, you can factor in a tailor, say a 100 trivial if you want to expand into other avenues of how to stretch the economic growth off a single item/idea. This way they need to find someone to sew it for them also or learn to sew. The combination can fail as well, thus requiring the seeker to get another original item from a lower level. Make it so a higher end tailor, someone that has pumped in a few AA's, will not fail, so they can charge a higher rate for a no fail service. Then with all factors considered and average on hand money available, the price will establish itself. An economy based on a single item is born.

Do this with multiple items, and mutiple race/class needs, multiple tradeskill needs, and excellent rewards for various levels from newbie to power player and you have a happy community hit!

Just my lengthy "2 cents," hope someone reads it. LOL!
Kurzesblatt Göttlichestahl ~ First Officer of "Ministry of Pain"
"Come... feel our pain!" http://www.ministryofpain.guildportal.com

ChaosSlayer
Posts: 1693

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#92 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:39 pm

about #4 - trivial Loot code ONLy existed on Firiona Vie server, togther with no "no-drops" on 99% of items that were normaly no-drop. So level 60s camping lev 30-45 named all over the world was rather rampart in the days from Kunark to PoP
Image

User avatar
Shanefpt
Posts: 119
Contact:

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#93 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:33 pm

Hmmmm... Funny, you sure? I never played on FV server at all. Vazelle for PVE and Zek for PVP. I am sure it was on Vazelle server.

If they make an item non-farmable to (XX) level, then they simply can't pick it up, which is good. They could escort out an alt or a friend of that level, I understand, but again, it will REDUCE that kind of progress blocking, of course it will never stop because there are those that hunt for exploits all the time.

I was just trying to offer up some ideas.
Kurzesblatt Göttlichestahl ~ First Officer of "Ministry of Pain"
"Come... feel our pain!" http://www.ministryofpain.guildportal.com

Ainna
Posts: 17

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#94 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:03 pm

I'm glad this thread has been resurrected. I would love to see a LOT more items with the "No Trade" tags removed. The hours spent in the bazaar looking for just the right gear would add another aspect to the game that seems to be really lacking right now.

We usually have like 20-30 traders up at a time, and we're all selling the same stuff. It's just a matter of underselling everyone else. This is no fun at all.

And with the new people to the server, I give them uber Sune buffs from my donor item but I would love to just hand them a really nice item too. Everyone on THF is so friendly, it'd be nice to have an opportunity to be even more friendly.

User avatar
Lillu
Posts: 11301
Contact:

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#95 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:29 pm

Good points Ainna, maybe some suggestion would help the cause. what gear set/items would be nice to have tradable?

Ainna
Posts: 17

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#96 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:27 am

Well definitely everything would keep it's level requirement, but I think most things Tier 2 and under should be looked at.

Say you want to take the time to farm ToV for the quested armor and then sell it on your trader, you could save up money to buy the spells/discs you want so badly but cannot afford at Tier 2.

I would even say all of the lower level quests should be dropable. Some people out there love to farm, others prefer to buy. It would be nice if THF could cater to both groups of people.

I don't think there will be a mad rush to the non-instanced zones to farm gear though. I'm thinking a piece of chaotic armor would go for no more then 50p because it's such an easy quest. I think if the characters at that level end up with two feet and want to sell one on the bazaar it might make the poor lower levels a little less poor.

Just my musings, take what you will, but I would love to see more dropable items in game!

User avatar
Shanefpt
Posts: 119
Contact:

Re: Server / Player Economy -- Some ideas

Post#97 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:48 am

Dear Lillu/Community:

I have been giving this great thought and I have come to some conclusive ideas in how to add diversity and fun to player economy [which should create a massive amount of new traders/buyers] while making Tradeskills a useful game commodity.

Since the tradeskills system has not changed much since the dawn of Everquest, while the rest of the game has evolved around it, it creates a sort of outdated and almost useless feel to it. I realize that you [THF] have utilized it partially [i.e. Epic 2.0 combines] in the game to make it pretty much a necessity to progress fully, but we still hit barriers where people can have their T7-T8 raid geared friends drop mobs so they can loot drops that are equivalent in usefulness and with far less effort.

What I am proposing here [which will be a suggestion in general, but if you wish for a detailed version I will furnish it later] is a revamp, not of the tradeskill systems in EQ, not even a revamp of the recipes is necessary, rather a revamp of the end results.

Take for example [because I love the name] the "Shadowscream Tunic." Once upon a time (in its time) this was an awesome armor [maybe not totally awesome but really good for the 50-60 level range. Lets look at it...

http://www.thehiddenforest.org/webtools/items.php?id=29832

I mean, you need to get a bunch of no drop items from Luclin that are rare and take forever to farm to make this item. Then you must have a 220+ Blacksmith Mastery to get a decent success/fail ratio for this item. But the stats it yields by today's standards are weak. This is decent for level 10 [+/-] toon because the newbie armors are far greater.

http://www.thehiddenforest.org/webtools/items.php?id=47653 -- Take for instance Miragul's Shroud of Risen Souls.

Now, if you make the Shadowscream Tunic, for it's difficulty a req 65 rec 70, tradable item, with relatively GOOD [not phenomenal, no need to dwarf the T4-8 gear] like say slightly better than most equivalent leveled items, say AC 105 +20-25 varied across stats, a handful of bonus stats to abilities like regens and/or "skills," with a Focus effect, maybe a general clicky buff, and maybe two aug slots [Type 1 and 8]. Now you have a reason to smith and seek a smith generally.

To balance this and not make the economy go retarded, set that a vendor purchase this item for 100-300pp [ish] but resell it for 1900-2200pp. This way people won't go charging 100K for it like is currently happening in the bazaar. I mean if it takes you 2 weeks to farm up 100K, but only a day or two to make the item, then it is not balanced. Bringing the bazaar prices down to a non-greedy/realistic price is also a necessity. Setting NPC merchant values like this encourage the maker to sell in Bazaar, and give him the opportunity to undercut the NPCs, while the smith that gets to greedy will sell 1 or 2 pieces at 10Kpp, but eventually people will find that in PoK where people like me smith, there will always be a dozen available for 2000pp and people will go there. This forces the price to beneficial but within reason. This will establish an economy fully.

Now do the same revamp with other crafted items from other tradeskill disciplines. For example, brewing, since the majority of the characters, especially fighter class [War/SHD/PAL/MNK/RAN/BER] typically have their STR capped. So, instead of brewing+alcohol tolerance mastery = +STR -WIS/DEX/INT/CHA, how about you do a +STR/+STR-CAP, like +20 on low trivial brews, +40 to medium trivials, +80 on high trivials, and +100 on grandmaster brews, maybe on the latter add status effects such as a small +20 HP/tick HOT, or -100HP/tick DOTs, or effects that cause temporary weapon procs? This would make it so that brewing is useful throughout the game even on the high end, I am sure that your drunken warriors would love you.

Jewelcrafting, similar to Blacksmithing, just bring the loot up to date, make it so they can cut decent augs similar to the LDON augs when grand masters. Again, no to overpowered but offering an edge over the common loot for that level.

And so on... I would go further in depth again, but my shift is almost over and I am about to head home. I'd even be willing to do the work for it if you tell me what files I need edit and where they can be found and what server files coincide with those client files and submit them to you if the undertaking is not something you would prioritize at this time. Just an offer.
Kurzesblatt Göttlichestahl ~ First Officer of "Ministry of Pain"
"Come... feel our pain!" http://www.ministryofpain.guildportal.com

Tyhanna
Posts: 68

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#98 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:39 pm

I can understand that some would want more drop items for the bazaar, but there are quite a few items that are drop items, between all the low lvl zones and the ones that drop from the WB, and raid aura quest, alot hit the market. There are random items here and there in even stillmoon. One just needs to farm them if they want to keep up their trader with full inventory.

People can make the armor from Icewell or farm kael for gear before getting to tiers.
I've seen some totally out of sight prices put on stuff this summer in the bazaar, 50k for a icechip from BOT. That is just crazy.

There is a balanced progression I think of getting armor threw to 70 and then up threw the tiers.
Noobie(1-30) armor to chaotic armor to kael armor/icewell armor to Tov/stillmoon armor, with nice drops in SSRA, to VP armor to armor in dsk, and then the t8 armor. And of course there is armor that drops ready made in tov, VP and dsk. And the stuff that drops in WOS, then there is Natimbi (which is dropable). Almost forgot the armor that drops in Fire, seems not so many people are killing for the elemental armor or the lesser patterns that drop there also, as much as people used to. Seems some want to by pass and get armor as fast as they can to twink out their toons.
Even if more things are added to the items that are drop you will see the all the same things on the traders over all anyway. I get the feeling people are trying to by pass natural progression of getting armor and stick with just bought armor. I could be wrong but is what it seems. more are looking for gear that has 600 hp on it. I think it would hurt the natural progression of gettin armor if there was a bunch of armor thrown in that was tradable.
Tantianne <Nibelung Valesti> Forever healing Blique

User avatar
Dellanx
Posts: 300

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#99 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:26 pm

This will not fix the economy. Well geared people kill dragons for clickies mostly, then /ooc the dropped items so they don't rot. This is one of the indenturing characteristics of this server. People helping people.

Thanks, :D
Image
Created by Azera of Tribunal

Firenze
Posts: 886

Re: Server / Player Economy

Post#100 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:32 pm

as I stated before in different threads, the first thing you need to have an economy is to have something to spend your money on : exemple casino.

When the casino came out, the economy was doing good because people actually needed to earn money so they focused on selling/trading gear.

Now that the casino's grand prise are outdated, noone play there and the PP amount on the server is growing and growing and growing.

My suggestion is to take the money away from the server economy : Exemple

-More casino grand prise

-Quested item or Quest part item sold on some vendor for a really high price.
. Epic 2.0 = 500k
. VP key = 700 k
. HoH Key 1.2 mil etc etc

All those value are just exemple, my point here is to create a need for people to spend their rotting money.

I have tons of t8 spells and droppable gear rotting in my bank , and I just don't waste my time to sell them because I don't need money at all.
Firenze of VallonZek <Europea>

Gwynraven

Return to “Polls”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron