Proc adjustment - Discuss here

[Tyler]

Nothing is permanetly on THF. If i decide something wrong, im man enough to admit it and redo some of the changes. Let's see the bigger picture though.

If mobs now take too long too kill, we can as well reduce some hps. We will see how this turns out.

[themike316]

on berserker 2.0 i don't notice any diff in the procs.

nebet 70 berserker

[Expletus]

Nothing is permanetly on THF. If i decide something wrong, im man enough to admit it and redo some of the changes. Let's see the bigger picture though.
If mobs now take too long too kill, we can as well reduce some hps. We will see how this turns out.

The greatest thing about this server is GM interaction and how you guys listen to the player base. I truely feel nerfing panther was a very bad move and feel I am not the only one. The clicky rings and additional buffs that give you a DD, good nerf.

[Ailesia]

Just throwing another angle in here in the mix of things. As many people can agree, the amount of content one can rather do on their own or in a small group is slightly lacking here, while full group or raid counters here is the server's strong point. What is this going to do, is shift everything to a worse point, being solo/duo/trio episodes being impossible, and raid encounters being almost impossible for small or mid ranged groups/guilds. You are forcing more players to band together to increase the dps you just stripped away, and while I know the focus of EverQuest is said banding, this server I think doesn't have the population to make us rely on adding that extra dps raid group to make up the difference. Being in an up and coming guild, this will also stop our progression as well (as mentioned above).

I would like to say, however, that the overlying problem shouldn't go idle and nothing at all should be done. I am just trying to say, in the most respectful way, that this was a less than good idea.

[Dammur]

I agree with most of what has been said above me. I have always thought that panther was overpowered since the time I discovered the spell. The issue is that all the content has been tuned around having panther. Now when panther is nerfed, the mobs effectively have higher hp (or take longer to kill) than they did before.

Suggestion - (I do not know if this would take too much time away from other endeavors)- copy 2 of your best equipped non donor warriors (Korpse and Jeido? /shrug- I am sure there are others out there, but I do not check magelos), rogues, and monks (does anyone else play a zerker other than me- I think there is someone with an alt equipped to a level similar or a little better than me? or a Paladin other than Karhaug?). Copy them onto your test server, and do dps parses with panther (pre nerf), parses with panther (post nerf)- If the post nerf melee character did 85% of the damage of the pre nerf character, reduce the hp on boss mobs by 10% (not using 15 % because not all dps is melee- each guild has a caster, maybe two). If the post nerf damage is 70 % of the pre nerf damage, reduce mob hp by 25%.

Without this change, we will find a way to get these mobs dead, but it may require significant effort gearing up extra tanks, it might involve having to recruit extra DPS, when you already have a tight nit group that you are content with, work well and get along with, and do not really desire adding to. Personally one of the reasons why I love this server is that we can kill boss mobs with limited forces, without needing to resort to zerking the mob, or gearing up a guild of 70 mains- where only 15 or 20 play actively, so you can muster up the forces to kill a new boss mob- and hope it gets dead before you go LD. I love being able to get 1 or 2 other people grouped up with me and being able to kill difficult mob- regardless of the loot dropped or lack of loot. (Shameless plug/ personal request- can we switch Traitor's BP to be a somewhat common drop from Sleeper?)

Dammur

[Tyler]

The real question is - after you people raised your concerns - what is the InGame experience with the change? Is it indeed suddenly impossible to kill mobs? To me it sounds as it is blown out of proportion. Sure you lose some DPS but its not like you suddenly have 15/30 weapons where as you had 60/20 weapons before.

Also, bring your Wizards on, they should do lots more DPS now. If i still don't see Wizards on then Melee DPS is still too good i guess The ultimate goal was to bring casters back to THF without raising their nukes to 20-25k base level. Or having pets that quad for 1.5k.

p.s. the idea to retune Panther is not dead, im just want all options debated before we do the next step.

[Lola]

Guys,

We need figures not approx fight which lasted 6-8 min then 10-12 min. Where is the nerf, you felt from 10K Dps to 7K Dps?

Please make 2 parses and post them:
*Self buff
*Raid buffs

Parses or it never happened

[Citizen]

The point is to make wizards and casters viable dps, not force people to play / roll them in order to progress, right?

How do you do this?

Two obvious ways I see are...

You buff casters DPS further and leave panther the way it was. Doing this makes casters viable to play at raids and take the place of existing melee without upsetting existing raid mob health/tanking/healing balance but does not allow for future expansions as easily.

OR

You nerf panther and procs as well as proportionally reducing mob health while leaving caster dps where it is currently. This option does not upset the current raid dps/mob health balance and lowers DPS to make room for future expansion. However it is a BIG nerf to the utility of the shaman class.

What you don't do is nerf panther and procs AND leave mob health alone. All you have done is bring casters in line with melee dps WHILE requiring raids to make up ALL of the lost panther/proc DPS. Which by the way, guilds dont even have to do by bringing casters but by boxing more monks rogues and rangers.

This server has about 40 actual players making up that 120-140 player population. I know I am on the low end of the raiding scale by only boxing 2. Many box a full group of 6.

To me the appeal of this server is doing end game content with 1 or 2 other actual players. I generally have very little interest in running a 6-10 person raid ( 30 boxed toons ). I would guess that most of the raid content being done before all the recent nerfs was 3-5 people (9-18 accounts).

This change has just severely set that back.

Furgis/Burt

[Citizen]

And just because you increase casters dps doesnt mean people will want to play them.

Until casters have more upgrade paths than mana pool, spell focus, and the occasional spell pickup, people will not play them.

Until casters can blow through LDONs like a well equipped warrior, monk, or rogue, people will not play them.

Until casters survivability is brought further into line, people will not play them.

Until casters are not plagued by bullshit outdated mechanics like fizzles and interruptions, people will not play them.

Until casters are able to do the same things melee are, people wont play them. Why waste the time gearing out a casters when the every day little things ldons, dungeons, farming augs, are still dominated by a warrior/rogue/monk with a couple of lifetap augs.

Honestly, I would play my necro but until right now it has been pointless and it still would be extremely painful.

[Valsavis]

Has anyone concidered that maybe not that many people like running Wizzy mains? I never did even on live... think my last guild there had maybe 2 lol. Most of the guilds I was in relyed mostly on bst/monk/zerker dps ( i personally noticed rogues becoming a dying breed there lol) and if caster dps was required there was generally plenty of mages/necros/druids that though didn't do as much dps as wizzies did good enough. The class has never appealed to me mainly because it's a boring class.... u get ports(which i'll admit if you box is awsome but i'm too lazy for that mess usually) and though a pretty wide aray of spells you can narrow them down into 3 basic catagories: AE, quick blast, or big boom. I was always bored with the nuke.. nuke .. nuke. The other int classes were much more exciting and interesting with their pets and other unique spells/abilities. Clerics would be in the same boat if it wasn't for the fact that their job is so important.... nobody ever does a high 5 for a crit heal =P (well the guy it landed on appreciates it I'm sure)

If you want to make these guys important you need to add stuff they're needed for. Great example are the encounters in GoD and OOW where you had to follow scripts and use certain types of damages on enemies.

I don't play a class because it's concidered more "uber" over another class. I play it for the fun factor. When I made my rogue on live it was well after zerkers were intoduced and monks/bsts had basically caught up to them dps wise and you really hardly saw anyone playing them anymore except for the occasional lockpick. (ONLY time you ever saw someone /ooc for a rogue lol)

*BTW I do play a necro... and it's not all that bad hehe I DO blow threw ldons. I don't really care what my mana caps at.... between the guk clicky and a mana stone to get by inbetween I really never run out of mana, even when I'm kiting 3-4 mobs at one time in PoF. Granted I don't use most of my dots and that helps me preserve mana some but the ones I use cost lots!(look up chaotic funeral) Best of all I can do all this while not whining that my pally bot isn't healing me because i got that covered lol. I just toss out a bsty bot for extra dps.(it's like having 2 more pets to help)