Proc adjustment - Discuss here

[Harney]

Just parsed 299sec ( 4 minutes 59 seconds ), Panther procced 377 times at 280 damage per proc

So, 377 x 280 = 105,560
105,560 / 299 = 353 dps

panther use to hit for 640 ( cus of chromantics focus ) with no bard

because the proc rate didnt get effected, i can simply substitue the 640 figure where the 280 figure was, that was the only variable changed

377 x 640 = 241,280
241,280 / 299 = 806 dps

so, without a bard ( big difference with one ) the difference is 453 dps or 135,720 damage

*NOTE* my accuracy on this mob is a ton higher than on almost any raid mob, so the actual dps on a raid mob is going to be lower, how much depends on the mob AC, but the difference in dps will still be the same.

With a bard, and chromantics 5 aug, you do 880 per proc, so lets sub in that number

377 x 880 = 331,760
331,760 / 299 = 1109 dps

With the new version of panther, chromantics and a bard, the proc will be 385 damage

377 x 385 = 145,145
145,145 / 299 = 485 dps

So, with a bard, you lose 624 dps per char ( on a dummy mob, its probably less in all actuality )

For comparisons sake going to put all the numbers in a row

New Panther - 353 dps
New Panther w/ bard - 485 dps
Old Panther - 806 dps
Old Panther w/ bard - 1109 dps

Now lets put these numbers in to play.

Lets say you have 4 melee in a group over a 5 minute fight with a bard, and they all swing and proc exactly the same amount that harney did ( just so we can see what kind of effect this will have on raids ). It's unlikely anyone needs more than 4 well geared melee and a bard to dps down any raid named.

5 minute fight, 4 chars, old panther + bard = 4436 dps or 1,330,800 damage.
5 minute fight, 4 chars, new panther + bard = 1940 dps or 582,000 damage.

Cazic Thule has 7.5 million hp, Terror, Dread, Xeg, Fennin have 5 million.

That's really about as far as I wanna dive in to the numbers, the dps I listed is panther proc damage alone

[Harney]

5 minute fight, 4 chars, old panther + bard = 4436 dps or 1,330,800 damage.
5 minute fight, 4 chars, new panther + bard = 1940 dps or 582,000 damage.

Statistically, you lost 700,000 damage over 5 minutes, and your stonewall doesn't even last that long. Kron, I can't see how this nerf effected you as much as it did, I'd like to see parses to prove what you're claiming, my numbers are simply on a dummy, but I did that to show the max amount of procs you're ever going to get, so this is the biggest difference you will probably ever see.

[Harney]

One thing everyone needs to keep in mind on these parses, is that melee are going to parse *way* higher on the dummy's than they will on any real mob, where as int caster's will parse exactly the same as long as their spells don't resist. ( something that will probably be looked in to and taken care of )

[Tyler]

New Panther - 353 dps
New Panther w/ bard - 485 dps
Old Panther - 806 dps
Old Panther w/ bard - 1109 dps

If anything - that pretty clearly outlines my thoughts - Panther was way overpowerwed. 1kish dps with a single buff per person is too much.

Interested in seeing a complete parse, means Panther + Melee swings/procs with Sune Buffs and the same but doing all damage discs to see max dps.

[Harney]

Was hoping Fusion could help out for the rogue paladin and non donator warrior part ( i know kron has xeg blunt and sev blunt ), I'll work on monk donator warrior and epic 2 mage pet dps parses in the next day or two

[Lillu]

Yep Tyler,

Is it possible to create 2 new dummy NPC with Fennin / Avatar and or CT AC (I do not take into consideration Knockback on CT, just need more AC on dummies for parses).

I'll take care of this tonight. Look for them in the caves.

[Tyler]

Sorry what ? Donators and Epics weren't touched.

[aabamzen]

If I could somehow get the new LS info I could do parses for monk/bst/war at the tov level

[Fraag]

Sorry what ? Donators and Epics weren't touched.

Thank you for the clarification. Sorry if that came off harsh.

[Expletus]

Like I stated before, nerfing the additional buffs you can add onto yourself with items should have been nerfed. Touching panther was wrong. You have taken a major function and utility that a shaman provides and negated it. It would be like taking true devotion away from clerics (or atleast nerfing it).

The other point i'd like to make is, the point of having a smaller raid force is to spread out the loot. Sure you want us to add more casters to rosters, but why? Why should we add another body into the mix when the mobs drop 2 pieces of loot. Having 5 people group up with 2 pieces of loot is a some what decent ratio. Adding another couple of people (a couple to make up for the dps nerf of procs) would make killing the harder mobs absolutly suck with a loot to raid force ratio.

The last point I would like to make is, the same as someone posted above, not everyone wants to play casters. Yea, you have a select few, and they are dancing an irish jigg over the dps boost, but if a caster is not your cup of tea, you are forcing casters on us to kill mobs or atleast add more melee dps to make up for the loss. The time of 80 man guilds was i live. This server is very initimate. like harney said, the server needs to go one way, a groupable raids, or full raids.