Monk dps

[shannix]

Live test

On draekon:
burn bp+ donor+ epic +hoh bp

Result on:
Usinea: 13% on thf 17% on test with new aas
Bekrells 32%
Catlynne: 64%-4% for the war dps

I should do the test 10 times on each to have better result but i think we got the idea.

So if rogue is 100% dps
Zeker is 53% of rogue
Monk is 21,6% of a rogue without new aas and 28,3% with new aas

Have fun

Usinea

[shannix]

any update? need new test?

Usinea

[Higgs]

I logged my monk Moro onto the test server to try out the new AAs and report back. I also tested his setup on Live to make sure the dps matches for the live numbers. I spent a few hours getting some rough numbers. Also I and another guild member had tested and discussed the differences between rogues and monks back in May 2020, when we were deciding what kind of toon to add before we broke into T7/T8 raiding.

At the time, our consensus was that the rogue donor weapon was underwhelming and my non-donor monk was able to out perform with just regular gear and decent AAs. That is to say we found that my non-donor monk was matching his donor weapon rogue in performance when at the T6-T8 range (within a reasonable range of difference, 18k dps versus 20k dps kind of thing). So at the time, we added another non-donor monk to our roster instead of a rogue.

I think my take away from parsing my rogue and monk is that the main issue likely lies in the synergy between class donor clickies and how well they stack upwards for rogues. The full donor rogue is just insane and I've never felt it should be used to tune anything. I kind of like the idea of a full donor rogue just demolishing things for a short period of time before dying. But the monk donor never seems to compare.

So here are some numbers with descriptions of gear rank, AAs, and disciplines/clickies added where relevant:

Yantovis, a non-donor Rogue Comparison Test (504 AAs, T8 gear but T7 554 rank points):

5 min w epic 2 and Mighty Aura, same basic raid buffs as Monk: 10,465 dps
1 min w T8 breastplate and Night Fury Rk. II: 18,820 dps
T8 Pet dps: 3200 dps

I added in the pet to give a sense of how underbuffed my parses are compared to bard/shaman/bst buffs I would have in a raid.

Moro, a non-donor Monk on Live:

T8 armor/wep geared Monk named Moro (T7 ranked, 582 tier rank points):
Live AAs (650)
No bard buffs (so not overhaste capped which I know affects Deadly Strike scaling)
Haste = Capped with 17% overhaste (217 total)
Lightly raid buffed, Power of Fear when not burning, Death Bringer, epic 2, shaman donor
Abilities used: Flying Kick, Hermit's Insight Rk. II, Tiger Claw, Dragon Fang


5 min parse: 20176.3 dps
T8 Pet: 3,400 dps with T8 Rk 2 toys and same buffs

3 min parse: 21,356 dps

Average Live dps: 20,620 dps

1 min Burn Test with Swift Strike Rk II instead of Power of Fear and Gladiator Rk II: 32595 dps
1 min Burn Test with Swift Strike Rk II and T8 Breastplate click and Gladiator Rk II: 38707 dps

Test AAs added (819 total)
Only Tier 7 version of new Kick/Strike AAs due to Moro's gear Rank limitation

5 min parse: 10058846 damage, 33530 dps
3 min parse: 9583403 damage, 31944.7 dps

Average dps with new AA, non-burn: 32940 dps

Basic Burn Test with Swift Strike Rk. II up (30 second buff that makes Flying Kick use more often):

I have to drop Power of Fear discipline buff (35% damage modifier) in order to use other discs

+With Swift Strike Rk II instead of Power of Fear: 56240 dps (sustain for 30 seconds)

+With T8 Breastplate and Swift Strike Rk. II: 79984 dps (sustain for 30 seconds)

Conclusions and takeaways: My non-donor monk was already outperforming my non-donor rogue. Now with the new AAs, it is a huge gap and nearly doubles the monk dps. He will be my top dps performer in raid, above my mage,wizard, and zerker. Alternatively, this is great for donor clicky scaling which will likely close the gap between donor monks and donor rogues as intended, but will leave non-donor monks really really strong comparatively.

But I'm all for my dps going up on my monk! It might actually let my 3 group raid progress into T9. I'm lacking DPS so badly for T9 since I am not donor stacking on my dps toons even with full T8 pets/buffs/gear.

[peterigz]

Yeah haven't forgotten about this. Thanks for the extra parses, it sounds like the AAs work well, the main idea is to scale the DPS through the tiers a bit more smoothly as well and also so there's a bit more to look forward to as you go up in tiers.

We'll probably add some bonus kick damage on some donor items as well just to get them a bit closer to zerkers and rogues in that respect, but it's nice to have a contructive way to add DPS in a managed way as your character develops. Will push the update in the new year after the Christmas event is over.

[Higgs]

Sounds great! I'm glad this was helpful. I knew I was in a useful spot to test out the 7/10 tier 7 AAs for you with a well geared but not OP monk haha.

I look forward to seeing it go live and seeing what you come up with in the future!

[Megalomaniac]

You guys make me want to start playing again.... I miss playing my Monk

[lpdfan]

I have one simple suggestion as a start for how to help the monk donor dps. Here are the donor clicky buffs for the three melee dps classes’ weapons

Rogue: Bleeding Razor: 8 minute duration, 2 minute recast
Bristlebane’s deception: 3 minute duration, 6 minute recast

Berserker: Berserker power: 3 minute duration, instant recast
Sullon’s frenzy: 3 minute duration, 6 minute recast

Monk: Mind and body: 3 minute duration, 7 minute recast
Quellious’ might: 3 minute duration, 6 minute recast

The scheme is the same, one weapon with a buff that generally increases damage and one that procs special attacks (backstab, volley, and flying kick, respectively). For the rogue and zerker, the “small” buff can always be kept active. The monk’s has a whopping 7 minute recast, longer than any of the “big” buffs. Maybe you’d consider lowering recast of mind and body (on Fist of the Tranquil) so that it can be kept up perpetually? This is a small/moderate dps buff but it also helps simplify monk play.

Any thoughts on this?

[lpdfan]

Logged onto the test server with my monk to parse some dps. I noticed that Death Strikes are hitting for 8625 damage rather than the 23000 damage they hit for on the regular server. Not sure if I am doing something wrong, but I stripped down all buffs and tried to mimic conditions perfectly. This is making DPS measurements inaccurate. Any reason I should be observing this?

[peterigz]

The death strike damage will scale with tiers as well to smooth out character progression, so will be good to test that more at lower tiers actually, can still tweak it. A monk won't do as much DPS at 70 tier 0, but should start to do more DPS than previously from maybe tier 2/3 onwards once points start getting spent into the new AAs.

All classes will get this treatment to some degree and hopefully we'll end up at a place where all classes have something to offer across all tiers and things are a bit more balanced. Especially wizards btw, remember those?