Proposition for NEW pet system for Mages and Epic changes

[Seipher]

Shrug, i just think its good to have atleast one pet that backstabs since on most raids, hes not gonna be tanking. pet toys could be a tier filler so you dont need new spells every tier or something.

I guess my point of view is, if im going to solo, i want a tank pet, if im going to raid, i want a rogue who can benefit from behind behind the target anyway, so backstabbing is a nice boost to that. most raid mobs ive fought are immune to stun, so the whole monk proccing a stun thing would be null against them, making it solely the DD. If its a rogue it would benefit from backstab and a DD proc from a weapon or innately.

[ChaosSlayer]

Shrug, i just think its good to have atleast one pet that backstabs since on most raids, hes not gonna be tanking. pet toys could be a tier filler so you dont need new spells every tier or something.

I guess my point of view is, if im going to solo, i want a tank pet, if im going to raid, i want a rogue who can benefit from behind behind the target anyway, so backstabbing is a nice boost to that.

I agree on a tank and rogue (as dps) - they are 2 minimum choices - just like to see your opinion of what is actual difference between monk and rogue - as pets.

And yes, I agree, toys could serve as intermediate pet boost between major tiers.

[Jeido]

How about adding a wizard pet, that doesn't melee, and has an unresistable nukes for raid mobs, that would solve the AE ramp problem

[ChaosSlayer]

How about adding a wizard pet, that doesn't melee, and has an unresistable nukes for raid mobs, that would solve the AE ramp problem

as a matter of fact I was JUST discussing this subject with my RL friend who is a veteran of many MMO games.
The problem is that your pet will ALWAYS attempt to run into melee range and try whacking on the target- just like npc wizards do, instead of say - rooting you, and staying out of range.
In both eq2 and wow they code in special feature that your caster pets stay out of melee, but unfortunately we don't have this option unless emu devs code this for us.

However, there maybe a work around.
The only way we could force your caster pet to stay still and not run into melee is by setting its speed to 0 - essential rooting it in place - turning it into a autofire turret

We could:

a) set its default speed 0. So in order to make it follow you you will have to use your summon companion spell
b) give you a spell that actually roots the pet in place for say 30 seconds.

If you guys would like something like that implemented, then we could specialize pets in a new way. We will just need to make a new list what a pet will cast at lower levels, so mages do not get a free wizard in their pocket

------------------

more on toys:

I was thinking to remove the Fear Bag of pet toys before anyone actually obtain them, and spread them among previous tiers in form of armor and weapons of different effects.
So rather than getting 1 pet weapon from ToV pants and a whole bag in Fear, they will be evenly spread across all tiers individually and give you joy of collecting them
What you think?

[Seipher]

Well i know pets can use disciplines, what about giving the wizard pet a custom stance that has no re-use time, lasts say 3 min and roots them ? that would allow it to stay put and nuke while still moving without having to summon it everywhere. If not, you could add an ammo slot item that would cast said spell on them if you cant code disciplines into them. maybe make it an instant cast clicky or something.

[Expletus]

I don't like spreading the toys out throughout the tiers. I think the pet spells themselves should be spread out, but the toys should not. LIke someone said previously, to supplement the power of the pet through the tiers, the toys should be made available at once in the next tier above the pet drop. So if earth pet drops in Ssra, the ToV drop should be a bag of toys. Whatever DPS pet you are making next should drop in Sleepers, and a new upgraded bag of toys (no drop/trade self only spell) should drop in Air. If you are looking for a drop in Fear, make that a combination of the two pets.

The wizard pet? Really? I honestly think 2 pets are enough, the rest are useless. Like Nataka said, you either wanna solo (tank pet) or dps a mob.

The only thing im concerned with is the power of a mage after the pet revamp compared to a wizard. Mages should not be as powerful as a wizard.

[ChaosSlayer]

To be honest I also believe that a pet class truly needs only 2 pets (like eq2 mage):
-tank (for solo)
-rogue type dps (for groups/raids)

and maybe a swarm pet for 1 minute DPS burst

Mage is already a nuker (primary) supplemented by a pet. If mage would get a true nuker pet, it kind of makes it redundant. (but on other hand - it DOES solve an issue f raid survival - if it just stands back and casts, but unfortunately doesn't solve same issue)
And yes - wizards going to SCREAM

To be honest the abundance, and insignificant difference between the pets always bothered me on LIVE. If EQ would have the kind of specialization the WoW has for their mages (expect of course wow mage is more of a wizard) then you could have 4 different class specialization paths (by each element) and then you would have access to just 1 pet , and a set of complimenting spells. This of course is not possible for us, but just thinking out loud. (Wizard imho should have been just ANOTHER variation of a mage via "petless" specialization, rather than a whole new class, but SOE decided to make things more "fancy")

To address THF gameplay specifically, lets look at realists picture:

Even out of raid trash mobs, starting from somewhere lev 25 cannot possibly be tanked by your pet, and as you go higher, it only gets worse. I am pretty sure if you playing mage as main, then you either have a paladin bot, or you boxing warrior or SK. (ok maybe cleric bot, but we all know that bot healers are really stupid )

So perhaps, rather than try to fix established system of 4 pets, we could set u a whole new system from ground up? Such us in eq2 - you would have only 2 primary pets (1 dps - say Air pet, and 1 utility semi-tank supplement (perhaps with a slow or rune or self healing proc?) - say Water pet, and a Fire pet would be made into a swarm for all tiers from level 1). And earth pet leaves the picture completely

RE: toys - I propose we discus the toys in the Pets thread - and yes spreading toys individually has problems in its own.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2484

[Expletus]

I think a 2 pet system would be better, I mean honestly when was the last time you pulled out a fire pet unless you were being a smart @#*. I've noticed you are obsessed with swarm pets... another option to a swarm pet is make a 30 second spell that increases the pets overall dps by 500% (or however long a swarm pet would last) and make the recast time on it 10 minutes.

[ChaosSlayer]

swarm pet is essentially is a fancy looking DoT
Yes a temp power boost - like a Burnout mages have, except with a REALLY decent effect is another possibility, for a compliment spell, and all of the epics (1, 1.5 and 2.0)

I like this approach to.

And yeah- even on LIVE fire pet was pretty much was only pulled out when you were farming low greens for cash/quest drops just to take advantage of its damage shield. But I guess even them, you could pull out Water, cast DS on it and get a same thing

[Nagash]

I like the idea of giving mages some very different pets. Unlike the other pet classes (BCT and NEC), they 100% relly on the presence of their minion so it is critical to give them some flexibility in that regard.
However, when it comes to changing their epic 1.5, I think the idea is good but don't give them a swarm pet with a 20 min recast, as powerful as they can be, this would be a downgrade (no point in being super uber 30 seconds every 20 minutes, let's be serious here). Looking how NEC get a level 73 pet, I would say, change the mage epic 1.5 to have a focus that boost a level 70 pet to level 73 when summoned. That would give them high level pet (very important for pet survivability) whilst leaving them the choice of what pet to summon. This choice is unimportant for a necro but it is an essential part of the mage's strategy.

Edit: Chaos, I just read the aprt where you mentionned Lillu probably prefering leaving this type of focus item on augment. I hear you here mate but could we confirm this? Also, you could set up this focus efect beyond any focus effect given by augments. Necro/Bst/Druid and shaman could still grind LDON for the augment but there would be no point for a mage has he would already have that effect (actually an even better one). YOu could also set the epic 1.5 to have that focus effect and the epic 2.0 to have that effect + a right click short term super buff for the pet.

Regards,

Nagash