Raid Details, Information, and Suggestions

[striat]

Wanted to add this to main forum and hopefully get a sticky so it gets more attention;p

I have heard from several high level players that the raid system leaves something to be desired. Not too long ago, I know some work was done with raids. However, I am currently unaware of their usefulness or lack thereof.

I really want to break this down into three categories so it is easier to adjust:

1. Problems related to groups within raids.
2. Problems strictly related to the raid feature.
3. Problems related to Bots in raids.

I'm guessing much of this will have to be built from the ground up. In addition, I'm aware several of these categories overlap. Anything to help steer this the right direction will be a huge asset. I never played everquest with the raid feature personally. Therefore, I'll need to do some reading. Any information to summarize raids and how they should work as well as detail any current bugs or lacking features should be a huge time saver as well.

Pictures, lists, tables are nice well;p

[Jeido]

Ok, where can i start...

I guess I'll start with how raids worked on live. Raid windows had a lot of functionalities, one of the key ones being that you were able to move people around from group to group.

Let me try to break it down in order of the buttons listed on the raid window.

Lock (Functional): This allows the raid leader to "lock" the raid. Locking the raid allows the raid leader to shuffle groups around, as well as makes you unable to invite new members to the raid until it is unlocked.

Remleader (Not Functional): This is supposed to flag a player from being labeled as "group leader" in the raid, to just being a plain old blank. (or a normal member of the raid) It is only usable while the raid is locked, but right now when you try to use it then it says "Raid Command (7) NYI".

NoGroup (Functional): Pretty simple, it ungroups the selected person in the raid window. Also only usable while raid is locked.

Invite/Disband (Functional): Self Explanatory.

MakeLeader (Functional): Make selected raid member the new leader of the raid.

AddLooter/RemoveLooter (Partially Functional?): When you hit these commands they are supposed to add or remove a person from the raids loot list. Adding a looter should allow them loot rights when mobs die on the raids. Currently, when you "add" a looter their name does not show up on the Looter List under options, but you do get a message saying that they are a looter. Also, none of the other loot options work (group leader only, or raid leader only don't let anyone loot at all).


Now here are some issues with the raids that make them unusable when you have bots. Upon summoning a bot as raid leader, the group "breaks". What I mean is, when I summon my bot it just shows myself and my bot in the group, and the other person is seeing themselves as ungrouped. However, in the raid window they are both clearly grouped still, but the bot is not listed as being in the group. I am assuming that since the bot is an NPC it's disrupting the raid, but it's creating problems on raids when a bot dies and someone resummons it.

This is the part where it gets really tricky...the raid doesn't recognize bots at all. If you summon a bot, group it, and then join a raid then the bot appears to not be in your group window but will still follow you around. Another thing that happens is that if you re-group your bot he will group with you, but if the raid leader manually adds someone to your group via the raid window then the bot appears to be ungrouped again. However, it still follows you around as if he was still in your group. With my two toons I was able to summon a bot on one, group it, join a raid, summon a bot on my other toon, group it, then move those two toons into the same group and have both bots still. Doing this could essentially let 1 group have 6 bots following/assisting them. (This bug is currently in game, and could easily be exploited even at this point)

Another current issue is with the raid disbanding. When bots are present, if you disband a raid then you are unable to receive group invites until you zone. I believe this stems from a group bug. When grouping, if you have someone in your group out of the zone while you summon a bot, they will be bugged when they zone in. The bug is that they cannot see the bot as being in the zone, instead they are greyed out. If the other members try to disband the group, the member who was outside while the bot was summoned will still be permanently bugged until they zone/relog. This bug is that the player would still see themselves as grouped, even if the group broke up. Targeting yourself and manually doing cntrl+d does not work, nor does having the old group leader do the same thing.

[Jeido]

I did some more testing today and found a few more issues with raids. Raid groups are whack, shamans can't cast panther on members of their raid groups but clerics can cast group heals, and other buffs work. Casting panther yields the you must target a group member message.

Another issue is with looting. If it's set to leader only (which is the default setting) then noone can loot, not even the leader. If you switch to leader selected and designate a looter then it lets that person loot, but as previously stated it still does not flag them as a looter in the raid window. (graphically, that is)

All of this was done without bots, btw.

[Jeido]

Another not so important issue, raid leadership xp doesn't work

[Shin Noir]

I wonder if PEQ/EQEMU crew are aware of these issues or who handles these sort of problems.

Most of these are pretty simple logic checks, I'm half tempted to go to EQEMU forums and just post the code to fix each of these (Especially the panther not working while group heal does, that's super easy)

[TheBloodmoon]

I wonder if PEQ/EQEMU crew are aware of these issues or who handles these sort of problems.

Most of these are pretty simple logic checks, I'm half tempted to go to EQEMU forums and just post the code to fix each of these (Especially the panther not working while group heal does, that's super easy)

If I had the technical knowledge, I would have a long time ago....in other words, share the wealth! Please, post your suggestive coding fixes.

[biggie]

I have a suggestion for a new custom zone. Permafrost! Everyone I'm sure knows how deadly that zone can be at the lower lvls just think if it was all lvl 70 mobs in there and lady vox was a 75 boss... Now that would be fun! its such a maze in there!


Biggie Smalls
70 necro
Leader of Crusher Destroyer

[Rerfu]

Problem with Raid:

Zone:

Plane of Air

Issue:

The mobs inside the coves to the left and right going through the castles tend to get stuck underworld and made unhitable 99.9% of the time. This slows down the raid as the only reliable way to kill them is with Bots and Pets.

Suggestion:

Remove the mobs with spawn points inside of the coves so they aren't there to aggro / path through the wall and fall under world.

Pre 70 Issue:

The major focus of the server currently is to get to 70 and raid or LDoN. How about something to break up the boredom of the 50 to 60 grind for new players.

Suggestion:

A raid zone with required level 50 max level 59 or such. This would allow players to experience some fun custom content without having to suffer through the exp curve of 54 and 59.

Maybe something to do with monster missions. Gives the coders something new to try and the dynamic wouldn't discriminate against people for playing the wrong class or being just level 50.

Problem:

Damage Casters are not on Par with the melee damage classes in a raid setting.
When an Air geared Cleric meleeing with Panther outdamages an Air geared Magician, you know there's a big problem.

Suggestion:

Tweak casting times and spell damage to fit into the current damage order.
Example:
Newly 70: 1600 DPS
SSRA Gear: 1850 DPS
ToV: 2250 DPS
Sleeper: 2700 DPS
Fire: 3300 DPS
Air: 4900 DPS
Fear: 6000 DPS

This would have to be tweaked depending on player feedback, but its really what is necessary to bring casters in line. Also, the main nukes for the casters need better negative resist mods, nothing is more frustrating then casting 5 or 6 nukes for 0 damage.

Problem:

Due to the raid mechanic of rampage on the server, pets are mostly a 1 hit wonder on serious raid targets. Pet classes are designed with their pets as a large portion of their characters abilities. Making the caster take time out of their DPS casting to heal their pet further pushes the disparity between caster and melee DPS.

Suggestion:

Make pets IMMUNE to Rampage. Give each class a AE spell ward buff for their pet that lasts 4 or 5 times per cast. So the pet caster still has to keep some kind of an eye on their pet if the encounter has AoE spells, but at least it can contribute to the fight.

Problem:

A few things with Ancient Frozen Armor quest were a bad idea:

1) Forcing Raiders to grind 1500 LDoN points.
2) Putting a T6 armor drop on the HIGHLY farmed 1.5 Dragons.

Suggestion:

1) Do 15000 platinum instead of LDoN points. For someone who can raid T6 LDoN is a straight mindless grind.

2) Move the Proof of the Dead Dragon to Dracoliche the raid dragon in Fear. Risk vs Reward here. Most people in T6 can solo a 1.5 dragon with their bot, but Dracoliche is a challenge. Forcing raiders to step on the toes of people doing the 1.5 quest is a bad design call.

[ChaosSlayer]

I just want to coment a single point at this time. (below)

I want to say I strongly support this notion

I may be even willing to set up something like that for the 50-70 tier range, but currently my hands are full with 2 projects already, so perhaps somewhere in the future. (unless of course someone else steps in and creates something interesting =P)

Pre 70 Issue:

The major focus of the server currently is to get to 70 and raid or LDoN. How about something to break up the boredom of the 50 to 60 grind for new players.

Suggestion:

A raid zone with required level 50 max level 59 or such. This would allow players to experience some fun custom content without having to suffer through the exp curve of 54 and 59.

[Ydiss]

I definitely agree with the 1.5 dragon proof item part, above. Doesn't make a lot of sense and artificially toughens up the 1.5 quest for people of that level when T6 raiders must kill the 24 rotations to do their armour quests, adding two bottlenecks where the actual challenge of the mob is way too low for the upper tier players anyway.