Server Round Table (Community)
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
I always wanted a system like that. I see no downside but a huge upside to something like that.
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
Hail all you Noble Adventurers!
I've been gone for about two years, and came back in to dust off the rust. I've had some chats with Lillu, and also went back in and learned what I had forgotten somewhat.
In answer to the original questions, I think rarely have I ever played with more than 4 or 5 real people in THF, and usually it's just me. As mentioned many times real life impinges on my EQ time, and because my friends have the same issue, we rarely, if ever, really played together, though it was often fun.
I used to box 10 toons on live, without the benefit of third party software, and loved the challenge, but hated it for the EQ experience. That experience being doing things with others. I did it because I have always belonged to smaller, family guilds, and we sometimes needed that level of adhd from players to make things happen. Needless to say we never reached "end game" content, however, but were content to move along slowly because it was still possible, largely when level caps increased. Here I've boxed at least 18 several times, with the benefit of third party software, but I'm not even as good as I was on live. Age maybe.
I'd prefer to only box 6 at most.
Now, what I've noticed is that for many of the lower raid tiers there are alternate methods of attaining the "right" to enter them. Tokens can be bought, or quests can be done, and each can get you into an area that you previously had no access to. Sometimes this allowed you to skip some difficult bosses at lower raid tiers, but you could always come back for the "real" kill after you beefed up a bit on drops from the higher tiers. I think, for me, this was acceptable and fun. I always had something I could do to "get there".
When Sol Ro launched, I loved the access "quest", largely because I enjoy LDoN's, and thought this was a nifty way of "getting there". As long as you "did the time", you would gain the access.
Yet, above T6, I think, getting there is a one-way street. Now, My main is fairly well donored, and some of my alts are getting there, but this is largely a love of the server, and also an acknowledgement that I have no difficulty spending money for my fun (remember, I paid for 10 accounts on live, at the same time, for over three years). I'm not aware of any alternate ways to enter the content that's above T6. Now, it could be that I'm just not as experienced in the paths, but I do know that I was lucky enough to complete the HoH quest on two toons, and while I couldn't beat the mob that gave the fragment of mortality, a few well-timed questions in OOC got me a partner that allowed that guy to die. BUT, the excess fragments were unusable, even though they were looted, because the rest of my tribe was not where they needed to be. (no one else that was on could use them, either, as I OOC'd them before looting)
What I would like to see are multiple pathways to each raid tier, so that, even if I can't beat the bosses, YET, I can still see new content and work on my toons to beef them up with non-donored gear. I would do LDoN's for this access, as in Sol Ro, or any other repetitive quest that would require diligence, but offered the chance to move forward somewhat.
I would also prefer not to have timed events. I think of the DSK1 mobs, and can't count the number of times I've timed out, rather than wiping. Learning the right strat is fun, enabling it is tough, but to be "in the fight" for a long time, gradually working it, and then losing because of a timer is a bummer. I have won 2 of the 3 events boxing 12-18, but again, prefer 6. I can't imagine a non-donored tank, with 18 or more real guildies as back-up, surviving the DPS of these mobs, but if they could, then I can't imagine them being able to put out the DPS in return to win within the time period. So, raising the DPS output of non-donor gear would have to happen, as well as the AC, or, take the timers away to allow people to fight steadily if they can, using a solid heal rotation perhaps, and kill as the Sleeper was initially killed, so long ago.
These are just the thoughts of a player that wants to see the content that's there, without necessarily having to give my life to the game in order to do so. I don't think any content is trivial, per se, because of donored gear, and I don't think you have to have it, necessarily, to progress. But, one should be able to hope that they can reach the highest levels, even alone, one way or another.
I've made other suggestions to Lillu as well, and will not re-address them here, but I would like to finish by saying that it has always made me feel welcomed to hear the GM's even ask questions such as this, and I appreciate the amount of effort that has been given to making THF as good as it is. Nothing HAS to change for me to keep playing here, but I would like to be able to reach the higher, open content areas, in order to randomly group with some of the other players here. The community is very helpful, and that is why I enjoy the server as well!
Enrikk
I've been gone for about two years, and came back in to dust off the rust. I've had some chats with Lillu, and also went back in and learned what I had forgotten somewhat.
In answer to the original questions, I think rarely have I ever played with more than 4 or 5 real people in THF, and usually it's just me. As mentioned many times real life impinges on my EQ time, and because my friends have the same issue, we rarely, if ever, really played together, though it was often fun.
I used to box 10 toons on live, without the benefit of third party software, and loved the challenge, but hated it for the EQ experience. That experience being doing things with others. I did it because I have always belonged to smaller, family guilds, and we sometimes needed that level of adhd from players to make things happen. Needless to say we never reached "end game" content, however, but were content to move along slowly because it was still possible, largely when level caps increased. Here I've boxed at least 18 several times, with the benefit of third party software, but I'm not even as good as I was on live. Age maybe.
I'd prefer to only box 6 at most.
Now, what I've noticed is that for many of the lower raid tiers there are alternate methods of attaining the "right" to enter them. Tokens can be bought, or quests can be done, and each can get you into an area that you previously had no access to. Sometimes this allowed you to skip some difficult bosses at lower raid tiers, but you could always come back for the "real" kill after you beefed up a bit on drops from the higher tiers. I think, for me, this was acceptable and fun. I always had something I could do to "get there".
When Sol Ro launched, I loved the access "quest", largely because I enjoy LDoN's, and thought this was a nifty way of "getting there". As long as you "did the time", you would gain the access.
Yet, above T6, I think, getting there is a one-way street. Now, My main is fairly well donored, and some of my alts are getting there, but this is largely a love of the server, and also an acknowledgement that I have no difficulty spending money for my fun (remember, I paid for 10 accounts on live, at the same time, for over three years). I'm not aware of any alternate ways to enter the content that's above T6. Now, it could be that I'm just not as experienced in the paths, but I do know that I was lucky enough to complete the HoH quest on two toons, and while I couldn't beat the mob that gave the fragment of mortality, a few well-timed questions in OOC got me a partner that allowed that guy to die. BUT, the excess fragments were unusable, even though they were looted, because the rest of my tribe was not where they needed to be. (no one else that was on could use them, either, as I OOC'd them before looting)
What I would like to see are multiple pathways to each raid tier, so that, even if I can't beat the bosses, YET, I can still see new content and work on my toons to beef them up with non-donored gear. I would do LDoN's for this access, as in Sol Ro, or any other repetitive quest that would require diligence, but offered the chance to move forward somewhat.
I would also prefer not to have timed events. I think of the DSK1 mobs, and can't count the number of times I've timed out, rather than wiping. Learning the right strat is fun, enabling it is tough, but to be "in the fight" for a long time, gradually working it, and then losing because of a timer is a bummer. I have won 2 of the 3 events boxing 12-18, but again, prefer 6. I can't imagine a non-donored tank, with 18 or more real guildies as back-up, surviving the DPS of these mobs, but if they could, then I can't imagine them being able to put out the DPS in return to win within the time period. So, raising the DPS output of non-donor gear would have to happen, as well as the AC, or, take the timers away to allow people to fight steadily if they can, using a solid heal rotation perhaps, and kill as the Sleeper was initially killed, so long ago.
These are just the thoughts of a player that wants to see the content that's there, without necessarily having to give my life to the game in order to do so. I don't think any content is trivial, per se, because of donored gear, and I don't think you have to have it, necessarily, to progress. But, one should be able to hope that they can reach the highest levels, even alone, one way or another.
I've made other suggestions to Lillu as well, and will not re-address them here, but I would like to finish by saying that it has always made me feel welcomed to hear the GM's even ask questions such as this, and I appreciate the amount of effort that has been given to making THF as good as it is. Nothing HAS to change for me to keep playing here, but I would like to be able to reach the higher, open content areas, in order to randomly group with some of the other players here. The community is very helpful, and that is why I enjoy the server as well!
Enrikk
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
Been playing off and on since a few years ago on THF, and I noticed that there are very few solo players. Most of the time its heavy boxing from a few people to do most of the raiding, soloing is pretty hard if not impossible unless you load up on donation items. I think it would bring a lot of people back or get new people interested if the bot options were expanded.
Gearing up my bot is a lot of fun and they are a pretty big help when I am alone or load up a cleric box.
But allowing more than 1 bot at a time up to 3+ would open a lot of content a solo player just would not be able to do. Or even tackle the higher tiers without requiring you to load up multiple accounts.
Gearing them up if fun, they are coded very well, but only 1 is lacking. Maybe have a way to boost your bots spells or abilities or spells up to the tier 8 spells, even rank 1. A lot of people find it troublesome to need multiple accounts just to attempt anything past tier 3. Or be in raid gear that you can only get if following in a team of boxers with the lower population.
Stronger or additional bots without being able to fill up a full group with them, or limiting the amount of boxes further would make the game play a lot more fun and social.
It would be neat seeing some solo content that favors kiters as well, low hp huge dps mobs that dont summon. Or some high hp mobs with low dps that a melee would be be better suited for. Just different kinds of content that are alternate ways to progress.
Updating the alternative progression line would be neat as well.
Gearing up my bot is a lot of fun and they are a pretty big help when I am alone or load up a cleric box.
But allowing more than 1 bot at a time up to 3+ would open a lot of content a solo player just would not be able to do. Or even tackle the higher tiers without requiring you to load up multiple accounts.
Gearing them up if fun, they are coded very well, but only 1 is lacking. Maybe have a way to boost your bots spells or abilities or spells up to the tier 8 spells, even rank 1. A lot of people find it troublesome to need multiple accounts just to attempt anything past tier 3. Or be in raid gear that you can only get if following in a team of boxers with the lower population.
Stronger or additional bots without being able to fill up a full group with them, or limiting the amount of boxes further would make the game play a lot more fun and social.
It would be neat seeing some solo content that favors kiters as well, low hp huge dps mobs that dont summon. Or some high hp mobs with low dps that a melee would be be better suited for. Just different kinds of content that are alternate ways to progress.
Updating the alternative progression line would be neat as well.
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
Is playing solo with bots different than solo with boxes?
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
I preferred the server rules not allowing excess boxing and no outside software. Where solo play was the norm not an oddity, no one really needs another beastlord alone where there's 3 box teams running around and one boxed wizard can do more dps than you could ever hope to.
With powered up bots and more of them you wouldn't have to load up multiple versions of eq and run annoying software to compete and allow anyone playing to tackle a lot more of the content.
Its different than solo with boxes because I see every new player with a bot, not a full team of boxed members. For those of us playing on dated computers and laptops a box team is just not an option. It evens the playing field.
If there was some way to make them use clickies they would be much more impressive. That alone would make them on par with a lot of boxes.
With powered up bots and more of them you wouldn't have to load up multiple versions of eq and run annoying software to compete and allow anyone playing to tackle a lot more of the content.
Its different than solo with boxes because I see every new player with a bot, not a full team of boxed members. For those of us playing on dated computers and laptops a box team is just not an option. It evens the playing field.
If there was some way to make them use clickies they would be much more impressive. That alone would make them on par with a lot of boxes.
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
I've been around THF since 2009 and have seen its evolution. It is starting to have a sunset feel about it which is unfortunate.
Completely agree with Enrikk on a number of things:
General comments:
As a general observation, over the last couple of years I've seen a trend away from new players working their way through content, towards new players being picked up by guilds and powered to the end game. This detracts from the server's atmosphere (or culture). I think this could be solved by attaching some personal cost to tokens - e.g, levels or aa points or something requiring a time investment. Tokens are great for flagging alts or friends but as you kill mobs for loot you wind up with spare tokens that become cheap to hand over.
Completely agree with Enrikk on a number of things:
General comments:
- Timed events mean you need x dps, which precludes a range of tactical options for tackling an encounter. Personally I think timers are a major no-no (Corinav anyone?) and force a one dimensional approach to encounters, for example with Corinav it was everybody AE or we fail in 14 minutes.
- It still feels like there is nowhere to go post t6 unless you're using MQ2 to control legions of chars. Presently solo generally stops at T1, single group at t6, and the later game is for people who are either in high population timezones (with time to burn) and/or boxing multiple heavily scripted groups.
- Deathtouch... insta death in games has a long and documented history of poor design, even going back to the pre-electronic era. In Zork, it meant tackling the thief as early as possible to avoid investing time in a game you were doomed to fail. In EQ's case it turns encounters into a formula resembling: chance to succeed = 100 - % death save ^ # tanks / deathtouch refresh. I am bringing this up because the deathtouch encounters in fear, for me, were the beginning of gimmicks being used to make encounters 'harder'. In contrast, the VP encounters are largely fine (though having to clear the other bosses to take on Phara Dar mandates a significant time investment to kill PD unless you're over geared, I see this as a design flaw)
- IMO you need progression for your different player types - People who MQ and box multiple groups, people who box a single group, and people who play single chars.
- Not going to criticise the donor system but I do think all tuning should disregard donors completely.
As a general observation, over the last couple of years I've seen a trend away from new players working their way through content, towards new players being picked up by guilds and powered to the end game. This detracts from the server's atmosphere (or culture). I think this could be solved by attaching some personal cost to tokens - e.g, levels or aa points or something requiring a time investment. Tokens are great for flagging alts or friends but as you kill mobs for loot you wind up with spare tokens that become cheap to hand over.
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
Just wanted to make a quick post and say to keep the ideas flowing! We are actively reading and discussing numerous topics posted here. In fact keep an eye out for some upcoming polls on possible changes in the near future. We want to keep the community involved as much as possible in all server improvements 
Oh the fun you all are going to have in DSK3...
Simon says.. touch the green one! Nooooo BLIQUE NOT THE RED ONE! zomg you just got me "Vaion Touched"!
Simon says.. touch the green one! Nooooo BLIQUE NOT THE RED ONE! zomg you just got me "Vaion Touched"!
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
I'm still lurking about, I'm not currently active on the server at the moment.
I've read this thread fully before but not recently, so I apologize if my post is redundant.
When EQ live came out with the new expansion Planes of Power, there was a trial (Justice?) that you had to win in order to access most of the new expansion. You were effectively denied access to all content beyond that trial if you didn't have sufficient DPS to defeat it. There was a *huge* portion of the player base that was alienated, that particular trial was too hard for the non raid geared players. Sony eventually disabled it as a roadblock, but for a long while it did give the impression that Sony was creating content exclusively for guild raiders only. A lot of us were very disenfranchised, it was as if Sony decided at that moment to create two distinct classes of players and to completely abandon one of them. Eventually we got in and we had a blast consuming content.
I see the same parallel here with T7 and beyond. I still think you would significantly increase your average player base numbers if there was a continuation of content that wasn't scripted to keep people out. It was an absolute hoot to create my 12 toon solo guild and progress from Crushbone all the way to stepping foot into DSK1. It took me months to sufficiently gear out my team to finally defeat Cazic Thule, I couldn't wait to log on every night. I was disappointed and disenfranchised to see my playstyle wasn't supported anymore and I got bored and left.
I don't know how to fix it. Ideally the top tier zones (what are we on now, tier 9?) are bleeding edge content that only a few serious hard core guilds can initially defeat. T7 *used* to be the end game, until T8 came along. T8 *used* to be end game, until T9 came out. But the gates were forever locked back at T7 for a lot of people. Eventually someday (hopefully) we''ll be at T15 and beyond but T6 will still be the last thing to consume for some.
I've read this thread fully before but not recently, so I apologize if my post is redundant.
When EQ live came out with the new expansion Planes of Power, there was a trial (Justice?) that you had to win in order to access most of the new expansion. You were effectively denied access to all content beyond that trial if you didn't have sufficient DPS to defeat it. There was a *huge* portion of the player base that was alienated, that particular trial was too hard for the non raid geared players. Sony eventually disabled it as a roadblock, but for a long while it did give the impression that Sony was creating content exclusively for guild raiders only. A lot of us were very disenfranchised, it was as if Sony decided at that moment to create two distinct classes of players and to completely abandon one of them. Eventually we got in and we had a blast consuming content.
I see the same parallel here with T7 and beyond. I still think you would significantly increase your average player base numbers if there was a continuation of content that wasn't scripted to keep people out. It was an absolute hoot to create my 12 toon solo guild and progress from Crushbone all the way to stepping foot into DSK1. It took me months to sufficiently gear out my team to finally defeat Cazic Thule, I couldn't wait to log on every night. I was disappointed and disenfranchised to see my playstyle wasn't supported anymore and I got bored and left.
I don't know how to fix it. Ideally the top tier zones (what are we on now, tier 9?) are bleeding edge content that only a few serious hard core guilds can initially defeat. T7 *used* to be the end game, until T8 came along. T8 *used* to be end game, until T9 came out. But the gates were forever locked back at T7 for a lot of people. Eventually someday (hopefully) we''ll be at T15 and beyond but T6 will still be the last thing to consume for some.
Moruk
"Killing is my business and business is good"
"Killing is my business and business is good"
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
If I was going to do a server I'd make it a ladder server and do a server wipe every 6 months to a year. I don't know how powerful the test server is, but I'd just make it the THF ladder server and get everyone racing to the top tier. Just make it guild based, and give each boss on the guild progression chart a certain amount of points, plus extra points for other bosses/world bosses along the way, bonuses for server firsts etc. Points could be diluted by the number of characters in the guild. Even if you don't want to compete there's something nice about starting afresh with everyone. Or maybe that's just me
Probably lower the cost of donators for the ladder server, and maybe only one or 2 max per character (they'd be temporary after all as they'd be wiped each time, just make sure there's a big disclaimer for that!). You've got costs to cover so you'll have to figure out the best balance for that.
I wouldn't fret over the rules too much as you can figure those out the first time as an experiment. Yes they'll be a lot of arguing over spawns and the haves and have-nots but that's all part of the fun. You've already got all the content there which with it's tier based approach lends itself very nicely to a ladder server.
It'd certainly add a new dimension, lots of people know how to get to tier 9, but I doubt too many have thought too much about the quickest way to get there, that would take a lot of strategy for guilds figuring out classes to use, which quests to do etc. And every 6 months you can advertise the server all over again so from a business point of view (I know you do it for love but...) you're getting a regular build up of excitement and anticipation towards the server which would probably benefit the main server also. Do a mailshot to everyone that's registered to lure some of the old players back to compete, post it up on eqemu and see what happens
Probably lower the cost of donators for the ladder server, and maybe only one or 2 max per character (they'd be temporary after all as they'd be wiped each time, just make sure there's a big disclaimer for that!). You've got costs to cover so you'll have to figure out the best balance for that.
I wouldn't fret over the rules too much as you can figure those out the first time as an experiment. Yes they'll be a lot of arguing over spawns and the haves and have-nots but that's all part of the fun. You've already got all the content there which with it's tier based approach lends itself very nicely to a ladder server.
It'd certainly add a new dimension, lots of people know how to get to tier 9, but I doubt too many have thought too much about the quickest way to get there, that would take a lot of strategy for guilds figuring out classes to use, which quests to do etc. And every 6 months you can advertise the server all over again so from a business point of view (I know you do it for love but...) you're getting a regular build up of excitement and anticipation towards the server which would probably benefit the main server also. Do a mailshot to everyone that's registered to lure some of the old players back to compete, post it up on eqemu and see what happens
Re: Server Round Table (Community)
I have been playing here for about two years now and I am really enjoying the server. Ran one group at first and am now running two since T6 became a little harder DPS wise. Cant really comment on T7 and beyond since I am keying for VP and attempting CT, but so far the content has been great and I have not really felt any cockblocks or such (I suppose they come later?). What I would like to see done with the server is an addition or expansion of the LDON system, new dungeons (Guk for one) would be great, it does get a bit tiring when you run 2-4 LDON per hour and always have the same 2 type of mobs. I would also like if there was another way of gaining LDON points, say each boss in Sol RO could give points equal to a hard mission or such - that would also give players another incentive to do Sol RO (there isnt much incentive for me to grind the zone since the tradeskill parts for armor combines drop hella more frequent than you can accumulate ldon points).
Going on to the tokens, would it be a bad idea to make the boss tokens (xegony, vulak etc) be sellable to NPCs (say Tunare) for plat? That would give people another incentive to clear old dungeons (other than the rare drops) and tokens wouldnt just be laying around waiting for that odd time when a new player wants to buy them or when you start a new alt (I for one have tons of tokens just laying around).
The raids so far have been alot of fun, not too hard and not too easy either (once my war got geared it sure became easier). I do share the dislike of DTs that have been voiced earlier in the thread, DTs are not fun - they are not challenging either, they are just inconvenient. It does not force the player to be better, just forces him/her/them to have another tank or two. PoFear has been a pain for me so far thanks to the DTs, sure it is manageable but it always makes me think twice about going there; its such a pain to deal with (dont know how it works with donors, maybe you can circumvent them with donor items).
Lastly on to a question! Are the remaining epic 3.0s still coming? I have not seen anything related to them in updates or on the forum in quite some time, the first 3 quests seem amazing (although the droprates are ridiculous, wouldnt it capture the epic quest spirit better if you made the mob rare rather than the drop? then at least you would get the adrenaline and joy from seeing the mob spawn, rather than endless dissapointment when nothing ever drops!).
All in all, I love the server and I for one am sticking around - but a few changes here and there would make it an even better server.
Going on to the tokens, would it be a bad idea to make the boss tokens (xegony, vulak etc) be sellable to NPCs (say Tunare) for plat? That would give people another incentive to clear old dungeons (other than the rare drops) and tokens wouldnt just be laying around waiting for that odd time when a new player wants to buy them or when you start a new alt (I for one have tons of tokens just laying around).
The raids so far have been alot of fun, not too hard and not too easy either (once my war got geared it sure became easier). I do share the dislike of DTs that have been voiced earlier in the thread, DTs are not fun - they are not challenging either, they are just inconvenient. It does not force the player to be better, just forces him/her/them to have another tank or two. PoFear has been a pain for me so far thanks to the DTs, sure it is manageable but it always makes me think twice about going there; its such a pain to deal with (dont know how it works with donors, maybe you can circumvent them with donor items).
Lastly on to a question! Are the remaining epic 3.0s still coming? I have not seen anything related to them in updates or on the forum in quite some time, the first 3 quests seem amazing (although the droprates are ridiculous, wouldnt it capture the epic quest spirit better if you made the mob rare rather than the drop? then at least you would get the adrenaline and joy from seeing the mob spawn, rather than endless dissapointment when nothing ever drops!).
All in all, I love the server and I for one am sticking around - but a few changes here and there would make it an even better server.
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