Economy Suggestion

Any feedback and errors for our Custom Adventure System... (LDON)
danub3r
Posts: 9

Economy Suggestion

Post#1 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:51 pm

Greetings,

I've been playing here for a little while and have found myself enjoying this server more and more with each passing day. I came from playing live on Firiona Vie, where there is a huge economy due to every item having the ability to be traded besides epics, epic quest items and keys.

There are, from what I've seen, three facets to this server.
    Custom Grinding Zones (non-instanced solo/group zones with custom content),
    Custom Tiered Raiding Zones (non-instanced raid zones with custom content),
    Custom LDoN Instances (instanced non-raid zones with custom content),

I am proposing some options to enable more dynamic content and boost the seemingly non-existent economy. Rated from 1-5 for difficulty of implementation, 1 being easy and 5 and difficult.

Tradable Augments and LDoN Points (1):
Removing the NoDrop flag from augments and giving them the ability to be traded (both LDoN merchant-bought augs and droppable augs). This would also enable LDoN point trading like there was on FV. Players were able to purchase and trade LDoN augments (100pt augs most commonly) to other players who could either use the augs or sell them back to the merchant for points. I'm 99% certain this would not change the LDoN leaderboards because those stats are based off attained points through completed missions, not sellbacks.

Talking with Topsy, he raised a good point stating that veteran players to this server would freak out about any nodrop changes because they have had to attain all their items without this feature. But, think about it: If this happened, you would be the ones holding all the capitol, i.e. the banks with all the cash. You wouldnt be losing anything, just starting off on top of a new economy, which makes perfect sense.

I also understand that some players might ask for raid augments (tier bosses and such) to remain nodrop. That would be perfectly fine in my opinion and wouldn't mess up much of the proposed economic model.

Tradable LDoN points also creates the ability for players to trade the points as a form of currency. Players with points could pay others to help them with attained LDoN points, and so on.

Revamped LDoN w/ tradable points (4):
LDoN's on this server are really a ton of fun and a huge selling point for players to play on this server. I can tell there have been countless hours pumped into developing these adventures and into the item development and balancing.

I believe it would create a new dynamic if players from level 60-70 were able to complete missions, having the rewarded LDoN points be based upon average group level of the adventure. Maybe a level 60 average group would get 5 to 10 points and a level 70 group would get 25 points as usual. This way, when players reach level 60, they can start doing LDoN's and saving up points. Once players reach level 70 they might have a reasonable amount of banked points with the ability to upgrade some armor or augments. I suggest also making a lesser version of the LDoN armor for level 60's (1/2 the stats of the 70 armor approx), so for around 100 points, so players can upgrade armor pieces and get a taste for the LDoN rewards awaiting them at 70.

Reduction of NoDrop items (1):
I believe it would be a great idea if players were able to trade items they find instead of letting them rot on corpses. I believe a realistic proposal would be removing the nodrop flag from most items except tier-boss gear and donor items. This could make platinum more valuable as players could start trading with each other using this as currency. This would also make it a lot more fun for players to create new characters and I think it would really promote expansion of the server.

This would change so many things about the server, but before you jump to conclusions, please take some things into consideration.
    This would create a real economy and enable full-scale player trading
    Players would not waste their time letting gear they find rot on corpses, they can put it on their alts or trade it to other players
    Veteran players would be on top of the economy, not starting from scratch



Closing
Please think about these proposed economic models and let me know what conclusions you draw from them. I am in no way an expert on the content of this server and am very open to anyone pointing out something that I may have overlooked or have not yet been exposed to. Thank you for your time.
Last edited by danub3r on Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topsy
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Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#2 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:02 pm

Thank you for posting such a well thought out idea. I can not say that i agree with them 100% but i do feel that promoting a server economy is a very "healthy" idea for our server and will gladly look into this with the other gms.

Again, excellent post. I look forward to seeing more posts that show as much promise as this one does.

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Lillu
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Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#3 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:22 pm

Thaks for the post, indeed a well thought out idea.

Ldon adventures are available at lvl 65, but we prolly will change this to enable lvl 60+ players start adventures. Normal adventures are pretty easy too at lvl 70 anyways.

The rest, we can discuss as always. Need everyones input so we can see how would our community like the idea.

Last thing, it would be insane lot of work for us so we really want to make sure everyone would like this before we get ot work.

danub3r
Posts: 9

Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#4 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:41 pm

The last proposed idea would actually take very little work. In the emu database, you would have to change only a couple things.
    1 - Go to the 'variables' table and change the 'disablenodrop' from 0 to 1.
    2 - Go to the 'items' table and change the 'fvnodrop' from 0 to 1 on each item you wish to remain NoDrop.
With the disablenodrop set to 1, the server will ignore 'nodrop' flags in the item database and only look for 'fvnodrop' flags. This way, you will only have to edit the items that you wish to keep nodrops (certain end-game raid pieces and donor items, or whatever you see fit really).

Thank you both for your quick replies, I appreciate it.
Last edited by danub3r on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lillu
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Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#5 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:04 pm

setting all items to not-nodrop isnt the issue, it's a simply one line sql update. though we have more than 1700 custom items to review and set to be no-drop again :)

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Topsy
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Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#6 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:06 am

i'm pretty sure it can be done on a zone to zone thing, or a spawnlist. point is, its not just a simple query. its game balancing.
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danub3r
Posts: 9

Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#7 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:12 am

I agree totally. I think that my ideas are rough and need more player input and fine tuning before anything is carved in stone. I am most interested in hearing which ideas (if any) players are more in favor of, as I am not 100% sure how many read all proposed ideas and not just the poll idea. I really believe if everyone pools together we can collectively come up with a pretty damn good economic model for this server.
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Rerfu
Posts: 366

Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#8 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:48 am

I disagree with removing NO DROP restrictions on items. There is already a semi-market for this with the raid boss tokens being traded.

Here's some background on why:

Back when I started THF, there were 2 guilds total on the server. Evolution which had closed recruitment and Progeny who's leader was on break at the time. With one guild closed and the other not raiding at the time, I formed my own guild <Help Desk> with Bumsock and Ghinaric.

We had a set path that we had to follow and accomplish for raiding:

1) Obtain Kael armor for every character that wanted to raid. This took significant time roughly 2 weeks total.

2) Raid SSRA for upgrades so that we could tank and survive the Emperor SSRA fight. (This was semi-shortcut-ed being that Harney had double donator warrior weapons and him and myself duo'd the mob the first time). This took another week or two, of organized raiding 6 or 7 days a week. Not to mention the 70 or 80 people key'd by Milein and myself during this time for Emperor.

3) Raid Temple of Veeshan for armor. This part wasn't too horrible except for the fact that the zone was non-instanced and we had Progeny and Evolution alts all farming East Wing with us which most times yielded 2 drake orbs per 4 hours.

4) Temple of Veeshan Raid mobs. Had to have 12 to 18 online and ready to raid, the tank needed at least some ToV armor by this point. Add another week.

5) Sleeper Key mobs. This was a giant mess, one of the worst experiences I have had leading a guild. Evolution would clear Temple of Vasheen non-instanced and we'd be stuck with nothing but Sleeper Key mobs at 3am. I stopped counting time at this point.

6) Sleeper augments. This was at least a 2 week farm non instanced due to competing guilds. And you needed the sleeper augments in your ToV gear to tank in Plane of Fire.

7) Plane of Fire. By this point all the other guilds stopped raiding and we had free rein on non-instanced Plane of Fire. Only took 5 or 6 days to farm all the gear required to move to:

8) Plane of Air. This zone is huge, the only advantage we had by this point was instancing went live. Plus, we had a SOS Rogue with a CoTH orb from Lady M, allowing us to kill bosses and avoid trash clearing except for the Avatars.

All of this while running a guild and dealing with people crying about various things every other day.

Here's today's progression:

Level to 70.
Obtain 1.5.
Get a Vulak Token.
Get ToV set armor.
Slaughter LDoN Normal with your bot.
Obtain BEST gear in the game. By BEST I mean better then raid gear even top end.

If the goal was to avoid becoming an easy server, LDoN definitely moved us in the wrong direction. Stripping no drop tags on any raid loot even non-boss would make it even easier.

As far as constructive:

LDoN loot definitely needs to be toned down, it eliminates the Raiding for gear almost entirely on the server. It is an insult to all those that raided with me as we barely won some raids and would wipe on others.

If you get a no drop item that no one can use, give it to a Bot. DPS bots like Rogues and Monk's aren't half bad on this server.

FV on Live opened up a whole can of worms. Look where all the Chinese plat farmers went, FV. Where if you spent enough RL cash on platinum you could buy full raid gear.

danub3r
Posts: 9

Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#9 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:07 am

Unfortunately there were no Chinese plat farmers on FV :) There is 1 person who rules the market on that server though and has for a long time, named Shanana, a level 1 female enchanter who's the secret alt of Scarar, the leader of Fire and Fury, the #1 guild on the server. He sells guild banked gear for plat, then sells the plat to websites who in turn sell the plat back to players.
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Lillu
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Re: Economy Suggestion

Post#10 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:19 am

To reflect to Rerfu's post, Ldon takes a mass amount of time to farm and get the best gear out there. You speak about it like it's a few days or weeks. Nope it's months if you want to be the top by that gear. Not even talking about the upcoming content that will offer better gear obtained by raids. The deal with ldon is to be able to get some top item in a reasonable time.

Before, the ldon was too hard to bother with, now it's too easy? If we tune down the items, noone will do ldon, etc, etc. You have to understand that we can't make everyone happy. Ldon is a chance for non-raiders to get some nice gear. Trust me, noone will run in full ldon gear, fully ldon auged anytime soon.

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