From the heart(about HoH)

[Lillu]

Yeah Chaos, send me more quest requests, I miss those!

[Wrinkly]

Going beyond that double point weekend that we all enjoyed and had alot of fun with...grouping together, getting to know other people, and evolves moving at a much faster rate. I feel I should post my true feelings about the zone on an everyday basis.

First let me say that I realize that many people farmed and worked there asses off for months to get their evolves lvld up and my hats off to you...all of you.

At this point, with HoH being the final zone and considered endgame I find it far from what i expect for endgame. I am sure there are others that feel the same way. There is just no incentive to keep me grinding on trash for months and months to try and get every item I possibly can in this zone. Rather I and others might wait and pray until the next tier boss zone comes out to simply bypass this one.

Sure, exp can move faster in raids of huge numbers but even then you end up with zone crashes ranging from 1 hour to 4 hours and I know Vaion is working hard to try and remedy that problem. Everyone says, we just need more people killing right? Our max players in zone during 2x was around 50, many afk but mainly with 4 to 5 hardcore groups killing stuff. At that point you were searching for mobs and waiting for spawns. Imagine what thats gonna be like when your tier below guilds get flagged and another 40-50 people come in.

For those who have suffered Im sure you understand, for those not there yet youll soon see. IMO the current exp system even with your 1 a day necklace is still too slow for casual gamers to progress a single zone. 1.5 or 1.2x exp would seem more reasonable with the slight chance if even .3% that the lower augs would drop off trash or some of the evolve items would drop from minis etc. There just has to be more incentive to get people in the zone to grind this trash other than just the points. At the moment its only rare symbol drops, rk1 spells, and potion components that you can combine with skill if you are able to kill volkara and get a rare drop bag to combine.

Everyones gaming style is different I guess, mine tends to feel needless grinds should be at the front of a game not at the end. Ive got a few evolves, two final, 3 lvl 4 about to final and I would also love to have those 10k augs, but you wouldnt catch me grinding that hard just to buy one let alone all of them.

This is in no way a bash at the devs for creating the system or at those who worked thier asses off to get what they have. Im simply speaking from the heart, and have spoken with many others that feel the same way.

Tal

I'm forced to agree to some degree, with Tal.

My first impression of the zone itself, is that its beautiful. I appreciate the hard work put into it, and I think that it shows.

That being said...

I understand the hardcore versus not hardcore views. My background, and that of a few of NV's people, is 6 1/2 days a week raid raid raid 12+ hours a day, calls at 4am for contested spawns, the call chain, the raid bottle (yeah I said it lol), the whole shebang.

Now, the way things worked over the double exp weekend, there were many many groups of people in there in a raid, from many different guilds, all working together for a common goal. People who for the most part hardly run into each other due to the instancing with the exception of t4. It was Nice. It was refreshing. I even chilled with a guy who lives in China and raises chickens /wave tal.

When double exp ended this morning...well it ended a little while ago, and theres nothing happening here, comparitively speaking.

Just about everyone bailed.

Even at normal exp rates, I don't see a problem when theres 8 or 9 groups working toward a common goal.

But as a single group in the zone, trying to evolve gear...

A final evolve on a BP takes ten thousand kills at current rates. 100 kill points per full evolve point.

From a standpoint of time versus gain, a guild could farm t7 daily and gear completely their entire raidforce with all the best gear from T7 in less PLAYED time than it takes a single group to evolve to final, a single piece of gear, which the reality of, other than class specific focus, is all the focuses are the same as t7 - dark X. So its a gain of some ac and HP and mana and a couple spells over the previous tier for casters, and those things plus the ability of the swingers to do damage and kill raid bosses.

I basically have all the playtime in the world right now. I'll probably finish the 849 kills left on the earring, and the 3831 kills left on a bp, but I'll then go back to t7 until there is absolutely nothing to be gained from it. Not because I'm not up to farming points at that rate, but because without those other groups there, its just not the same. It may as well be instanced. And once theres nothing to be gained in T7, I'm sure I'll be found in HOH, and on double weekends. Maybe things will change a bit with the rest of NV flagged and in there killing,, time will tell.

Tal talked about an anonymous poll...and this i gotta disagree with you on Tal.

There is just no need.

People - the clear and obvious majority of them - are voting with their feet, and doing other things.

Personally, I find that to be a cause for concern, and I find it makes the zone much less fun, overall.

None of what I say here, should be construed as a dig at anyone, I realize you guys put your time effort and heart into this server and the content, and it really does show both in terms of the quality of the content, and the loyalty of so many THF players.I don't want to see wow here on THF. EVER. As far as I'm concerned, thats the game that ruined the genre.

I don't think dialing things back a little would hurt though, either.

These are my observations and feelings, for however much or little they're worth.

Peace.

This is why you're a damn good guild leader. Always doing your best to keep everyone's point of view in perspective....its an amazingly difficult perspective to have on things. And thats not to say you can get me LMAO'ing when Fopho logs in and you 2 start ripping at each other, its great.

Still catching up on this totally interesting thread.

[Blique]

I noticed some people tend to have an issue with AFKers. Some perspective could be had on the issue by noting these facts for what theyre worth:

Number one: Afk people aren't taking anything away from anyone else, by being afk and getting raid exp. Think of it like sharing the same sun light at the beach. Do you tan less because someone else also gets tan? Of course not.

Number two: People - and this generally goes for most HOH regulars - have different schedules. Yes, some people afk, but if theyre killing while you're afk, asleep, or at work, what difference does it make if they're afk while you are killing?

Number three: Even if someone leeches and rarely kills for points, so what? It doesn't hurt anyone in any way. It doesn't hurt to help people by letting them get afk points. Lets all try to remember where we all came from - we were all low level newbies at one point or another, and not a single one of us got to this point without the help of others.

I think thats worth repeating:

Not a single one of us got to this point without the help of others.

Thats my view, and in raids I run in HOH I have no problem with AFKers. The above is not meant to be a "call out" to anyone, but rather, meant to place the issue into (IMO) the proper perspective.



The current state of the zone:

The tuning to the trash gets a /thumbsup.

The 1.5x being made default exp rate also gets a /thumbsup.

The confirm boxxes added to the vendors - thank you Vaion a thousand times sir. /salute.

Those changes, while mostly subtle, really make the zone - IMO - as close to being what it should be, as it is going to get.

[Tyhanna]

I noticed some people tend to have an issue with AFKers. Some perspective could be had on the issue by noting these facts for what theyre worth:

Number one: Afk people aren't taking anything away from anyone else, by being afk and getting raid exp. Think of it like sharing the same sun light at the beach. Do you tan less because someone else also gets tan? Of course not.

Number two: People - and this generally goes for most HOH regulars - have different schedules. Yes, some people afk, but if theyre killing while you're afk, asleep, or at work, what difference does it make if they're afk while you are killing?

Number three: Even if someone leeches and rarely kills for points, so what? It doesn't hurt anyone in any way. It doesn't hurt to help people by letting them get afk points. Lets all try to remember where we all came from - we were all low level newbies at one point or another, and not a single one of us got to this point without the help of others.

I think thats worth repeating:

Not a single one of us got to this point without the help of others.

Thats my view, and in raids I run in HOH I have no problem with AFKers. The above is not meant to be a "call out" to anyone, but rather, meant to place the issue into (IMO) the proper perspective.



The current state of the zone:

The tuning to the trash gets a /thumbsup.

The 1.5x being made default exp rate also gets a /thumbsup.

The confirm boxxes added to the vendors - thank you Vaion a thousand times sir. /salute.

Those changes, while mostly subtle, really make the zone - IMO - as close to being what it should be, as it is going to get.

I totally agree with blique on the afk thing, I would hate to see this change, we (blique and Tantianne have sat up threw the last 2x exp weekend, no extra exp, the christmas exp and now the 1.5 exp. I have seen alot of people helping each other from different guilds, on boxer cant take a mini someone will come help from an other guild that happens to be grinding up there also.

We have offered to set up raids a few days a week, and since that first thursday beginning of January we ( and a few other guilds) have had raids going on all times of the day and night almost every day. This is also a way to for people to get to know each other outside of your own guild.

The grind yes is boring but the reward for doing its is a +. There is no gain in whinning and crying about it, but get out there and help out even if its a hour every couple nights. Pretty soon the armor is evolved and then its done. If your not going to come up and kill minis how will you ever get your Rk2 spells?

Vaion please dont change how things are done up there, raid exp is great regardless of how some feel. all the changes that have been made lately have been for the good. Thank you!

[Tyhanna]

The trash is still the overwhelming default for most guilds. The kind of raid force you need to take down the bosses is significant enough that most guilds can't do them every day. Only 4 HOHb bosses have been killed this year.

We *definitely* appreciate the difficulty of the raid encounters, but everyone is stuck with the ultragrind content 90% of the time, and at least a few people feel the experience would be improved if it were more skill oriented and less time intensive.

I can tell you the minis dont take alot to kill, yes they can be a challange but not impossible, yes you have to work at killing the named bosses but they are killable. You need to have the gear and people to do it tho. You dont have to grind 24/7 but if you want t8 gear you need to do something. Guilds that have killed the names up to this point have done their time up killing trash, getting points, and progressing to the names. Yes 4 names have been killed in HOHb, thats pretty good considering how long it took to finish DS for most guilds. Alot have seen the value of having the t8 gear, and have done what it takes to get it. Plus the augs and the rk 2 spells that are to be had. You know the t8 augs replace the wind augs right?

I really dont think there is a huge amount of people that dont want to do this Ive seen full 72 raids since the end of the holidays. Ive seen an average of 50 toons in zone any given time. And like others have said here there are many things to do to get points, and the marbles to get the augs, you just have to try.

Again there is nothing wrong with afk people in the raid, we welcome anyone that wants to come up. Not all the time is there people killing but alot of the time there is. Pretty much when ever someone feels like killing they jump in the raid and have at it. Everyone benifits. Ive also seen people share rk 2 spells off the minis so they wouldnt rot. Everyone working together in a common goal.

[Niixnec]

Would it be possible to look at the marble drop rate? Seem to average about 1 an hour where aug items and spells get 3-4 an hour, if not more. With the need for 3 marbles for each aug and multiple augs (2 or 3 augs per piece) it almost seems like a losing battle.

Running six toons i have all the aug items on every toon but no marbles to make the augs. If the drop rates can't be increased would it be possible to buy them from a vendor for godly points? Or have them drop from the minis?

As with others thank you for the revamp with the trash, the 1.5 points and the confirmation boxes (GREAT!).

[Harney]

Nadox has twice the drop rate of marbles as HoH does, so you could move to Nadox to farm marbles ( and also get credit for the great kill quest reward offered in the zone ) once you fill up on aug pieces. I've got over 100 of each marble sittin in the bank and have made a few dozen augs so far, so I definitely don't think it's a losing battles, UNLESS you are simply farming HoH, then yea I could see your point. Luckily enough there is another zone to farm a better drop rate of marbles in, I see no need to change this or farming Nadox would be pointless with the exception of the kill quest and to clear from one named to another.

[Firenze]

I totaly agree with harney on this point.

Finding a Marble in hoh is just a easter egg. the real place to farm those is nadox and it's perfect this way.

[Droonkan]

Bad luck for me in Nadox or zone in mobs don't share the same drop rate for marbles compared to whatever mobs you are referring.

[Micah]

Harney is right on this.