Proc adjustment - Discuss here

[khaliss]

Bumping up the CD of the defensive ring is not the solution (IMHO)... the ring is there to only be used as a last resort for difficult encounters... we shouldn't really be relying on those, cuz it's going to be to unfair to tanks who don't have one. The GMs have explicitly said that the server's development isn't focused/balanced on high end raiders alone, but for everyone.

-edit- Just to clarify, I have the defensive ring

[Tyler]

Just did a quick parse with Tyler, check here in the results thread.

Thats just using auto attack and Flying Kick as soon as it pops.

Really need Rog Dps to compare!

[Falcore]

There has been changes? To be honest its barely noticeable

Recently there has been a large influx of high end gear on the server, due to easy to obtain World Boss Loot that is comparable to some Air items without raiding. And the use of tokens to help push new members into harder zones. So it can create powerful characters faster then it used to take. Soloed the blood of Srra next to Emp last night to see if the my damage output was a joke. Its not, monks still kick some serious butt.

So tune it all down I say

Especially World Boss and tradable loot. Its great for players who cant get together to get high end raid gear, but it should not be in the same class. Just dont take away my Paci Pants and I will be happy monky

[Harney]

The more i keep reading this the more i see tanks becoming more prevalent on the server.

honestly Kron, no idea what you are talking about. but imo, time to start a constructive conversation with valid points and parses. we are doing class balancing and need players help. pointless comments won't help much.

Its not pointless. You stated the one Stonewall wont cut it now and we know it doesnt from experience in ST.

So how you do overcome this problem - its easy, play more warriors.

I'm just thinking about the knock on effects.

There's really no other way to do this than to just straight call you out, I did two warders in ST last night, one of them being the highest hp mob there, and both died within the defensive disc, so I'm really not sure what kind of phenomenon you had when you did ST dragons, but I'm more than willing to make a 142 second video ( the time it took for nanzata to die, with 4 characters ) if that's what it takes to show you that melee dps was really hardly touched in the grand scheme of things.

You lost 600 dps, any rogue monk or ranger should be well above 7k dps on those things anyway, I'm not sure why Fusion is insisting that shamans are somehow now any less essential to raids, there's no way you're ever going to raid without one, still. They took take panther OUT of the game and I still wouldn't even think twice about benching mine.

Post parses of your group/raid not being able to do warders in the disc time and we can talk, but until I see actual numbers from your end about this matter, I'm going to stop paying attention. Just so you know I'm not bullshitting:

Nanzata the Warder in 142sec, for 603027HP and your 4247dps at 5/11/2010 5:46:33 AM
Ventani the Warder in 266sec, for 1320105HP and your 4963dps at 5/11/2010 5:56:37 AM

ventani is a 5 million hp mob, this would mean that if the mob ac and resist rate were the same, I could still do fennin with 4 *TOTAL* characters in one disc, without even thinking about using a ring.

How Fusion gets off claiming that melee dps is some how shit and that casters are required is completely beyond me. Again, parses or I'm not buying it.

[Kron]

Bumping up the CD of the defensive ring is not the solution (IMHO)... the ring is there to only be used as a last resort for difficult encounters... we shouldn't really be relying on those, cuz it's going to be to unfair to tanks who don't have one. The GMs have explicitly said that the server's development isn't focused/balanced on high end raiders alone, but for everyone.

-edit- Just to clarify, I have the defensive ring

So how do you overcome the problem which Volgar mentions above?

[Expletus]

How Fusion gets off claiming that melee dps is some how shit and that casters are required is completely beyond me. Again, parses or I'm not buying it.

Where on this thread did we say "melee DPS is shit" ? Our whole argument is that by nerfing panther, you are nerfing OVERALL dps. That doesn't make sense to nerf OVER ALL dps and not shed some HP's off some bosses. By not shedding some HP's, you are causing several things to come into play. Longer fights means more mana consumed for overall heals and longer amount of time tanking mobs with disciplines, which will wear off during the fight. When I say OVERALL DPS it is including panther. If the mobs were shed some HP's I wouldn't care, but the old panther def. helped a ton w/the mobs that have 1 gazillion HP's. You saw my magelo, I don't care for the whole concept of clicky dps procs in the first place. I don't think any class should have the ranger only ability on a clicky ring.

As for requiring casters, by having them crit for 100k you make them VERY important to have at raids. It almost makes some classes obsolete aka: Mages, rogues, monks. Why waste the mana healing these guys from rampage when your wizards are nuking from a distance requiring no heals at all?

We could tell the difference with the new panther compared to the old panther killing Dracolitche tonight. It was very long and boring. Thank god i could watch Zanfire bang out 100k crits while I was poking him for 1 damage (awesome btw).

[Pyronost]

Nothing is permanetly on THF. If i decide something wrong, im man enough to admit it and redo some of the changes. Let's see the bigger picture though.

If mobs now take too long too kill, we can as well reduce some hps. We will see how this turns out.

*edit* - Hitting for 1's and 2's occasionally is normal. Regular DPS of the items were never touched, only procs + panther atm. Hell, the swords I made for jericho that are base 20/249 for shiggles hit for 1-3 now and then. I find it entertaining.

[Taladome]

I had said before that the panther nerf was bad its what makes shamans great and personally I think that the changes should be reversed even on the clicky buffs BUT make them overwrite each other. Panther alone was not the problem it was that you had 4 dps proc buffs being able to stack. Wizards have been complaining for so long to get 2 spells that do two totally different things to be able to stack yet melees get so many items that do the exact same thing stack easily. Just make them overwrite each other, if you have panther thats what youll be using, if not you have your other options.

As for tanking as things are now, when me and my friend first got into ToV and wanted the ToV BP badly but couldnt stand to wait for the random symbol to drop we did what we always did on live. Swapped tanks on a mob we couldnt otherwise tank. Swapping tanks is easy and smooth if you are prepared to do so.

There has been changes? To be honest its barely noticeable

Recently there has been a large influx of high end gear on the server, due to easy to obtain World Boss Loot that is comparable to some Air items without raiding. And the use of tokens to help push new members into harder zones. So it can create powerful characters faster then it used to take. Soloed the blood of Srra next to Emp last night to see if the my damage output was a joke. Its not, monks still kick some serious butt.

So tune it all down I say

Especially World Boss and tradable loot. Its great for players who cant get together to get high end raid gear, but it should not be in the same class. Just dont take away my Paci Pants and I will be happy monky

Absolutely nothing to do with this topic or discussion

Taladome

[Tyler]

Our whole argument is that by nerfing panther, you are nerfing OVERALL dps

You got it almost right

Our whole argument is that by nerfing panther, you are nerfing OVERALL MELEE dps

There fixed it for you. Clicks/Procs will stay as they are from what i can tell from my personal parse.

As for requiring casters, by having them crit for 100k you make them VERY important to have at raids. It almost makes some classes obsolete aka: Mages, rogues, monks.

Like 3 days ago it was like this

As for requiring rogues,monks etc by having them dps for 6-8k you make them VERY important to have at raids. It almost makes some classes obsolete aka: int casters, rangers, beastlords etc

You guys are turning circles. I achieved exactly what i wanted to do.

Im with Harney on this one, until you guys begin to supply hard and solid data, read parses, im done with this topic. Everything seems fine? Not sure but lots of people make me believe its fine. Only Fusion claims everything highend is suddenly broken. Shamans might get something nice in return, yet to be decided. Imo they still bring a buff that gives anyone capable of dualwielding an approx 300 DPS buff! Plus champion, decent heals,, Chaotic Focus etc etc.

There are classes that are much much worse on THF.

[Expletus]

All you achieved was force casters into raids on a 90 percent melee dominate server. As I stated above, I'd rather 4 wizards than rogues / monks / bst / shit anyone that needs to get near the mob due to the insane rampage that require you to heal them. You can have decent gear and still be a beast with wizards as long as you have your 2.0.

**Edit** Deleting my post because you don't like it rocks.