A request...

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TheBloodmoon
Posts: 391

Re: A request...

Post#11 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:11 pm

Well, we already have a rotation with Evolution going, however, Progeny has lost a LOT of members recently, and can't seem to find new population to recruit from, given our guild's playtimes. So we raid what we can, when we have the people for it, which is getting less and less frequent, until we find more recruits.

However, our problem is not that there isn't enough content for us specifically, but that there's not enough players. I personally wouldn't mind rekeying 4 or 5 more times for those that need ToV flag, or gearing them through ToV. That's just more time we get to spend hanging out doing what we enjoy, which is playing and raiding. It's not always about gear, but it is fun to progress through content.

Personally, I'd rather see another set or two of the same tiers we have now, with different encounters, different challenges, and different loot with different benefits, instead of creating ways to hand down used raid loot. That would create more content to play with, more options for raid rotations, more room for new guilds to grow into, and more options for loot for new guild recruits for the higher end guilds. Easier said than done, I know, but I'm sure that Lillu and Tyler already have hopes of creating such content and having an expansive world beyond what other servers offer is their ultimate goal. I just hope that the server moves in that direction instead of "easing" the burden for new players to "close the gap" between higher and lower end content. If Evolution AND Progeny can work their way through the content starting from the lower tiers, anyone else can do the same if they put the effort into creating a new guild.
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The Bloodmoon Clan

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Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: A request...

Post#12 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:18 pm

Summer has always been a low time for EQ, EMU or Live.

We will check out the options at end. Hopefully, even with Evo being back at full pace, ST will remain a bit until its cleared again so we have some room for a new midlevel zone.
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Koeril
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Re: A request...

Post#13 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:40 pm

We've just had a rough time to, but a few new recruits lately has helped keep it going during the lean times. Hopefully things will pick up again soon.

On topic, however, I've kinda gone both ways on this. Last night when Jeido told me about it, initially I was all for it. However after reading this thread and having some time to ponder over it, I'm still not sure. I think I am more in favor of keeping things no drop, but adjusting the drop rates on some items - getting 8+ (I didn't count ... maybe 6-8 I dunno) 2H weapons last night was just really annoying since we really didn't even need a single one. I understand it is all chance, but perhaps there are just too many 2H weapons in general on the ToV dragons?

The token system has distinct possibilities ... sorta like the way LDoN points were. I'd be interested in seeing how that works out if you do it.
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<Evolution>

Jeido
Posts: 1265

Re: A request...

Post#14 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:25 pm

This post is going in a great direction, and I am liking the alternatives that are being presented. As Koeril said, weapons drop far too frequently and theirs not as much use for them as there are armor. I have a few ideas to change this, or just suggestions. One would be to keep drops as they are, but make weapons drop far less frequently (however be careful with this, you did that with the COTH item and we've still gotten 0 drops). Another would be to start designating certain bosses for weapon drops. This way if a guild doesn't need any weapons, they can choose to avoid that named altogether.

Making raid encounters instanced would be great and I believe the latest rev updates actually allows instances to be opened up. Hopefully Lillu/Tyler can figure this out.

And as Tankz has been suggesting, I think that alternative raid zones would be nice to spice things up a bit. It takes time to do something like that though, raid zones aren't quick and easy to customize. Balance is always an issue with new raid zones, but maybe with ToV being a base then it could be easier to do. If this is done though, then I hope theirs some spice added to some of the encounters :)
I'd love to raid some events like Poearth events, PoTime would be fun too! And of course, my favorite, Tacvi.

Tacvi is a very small raid zone, but on live it was ridiculously hard. Perhaps tacvi could be put in, and similar sized zones like it, as alternatives to other raid zones? Here's my suggestion for this. Since the zone would be much smaller than the "normal" raid zones, then make the encounters more difficult. For example, if Tacvi were the parallel to ToV then you could make Tacvi raid mobs20% harder than ToV bosses, and the little trash inside twice as hard as ToV mobs. I remember on live the giant tacvi trash would require a CH rot and a top notch defensive tank. Something like this, I think, would prevent newer guilds from being able to just storm through the zone in 2 hours. Higher guilds (such as evo) would probly not have too much trouble doing it in 2-3 hours, but at least it wouldn't drive the older members crazy. It also makes life easier for people who box :P
Jeido, Founder of Evolution

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Lillu
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Re: A request...

Post#15 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:37 pm

sarcon wrote:i hate to dissagree with jeido but i dont think no-drop should be removed on the actuall gear drops (now however maybe on ToV armor symbols,orbs that could be justified), or perhaps when you add the new group zone that armor could sub in to gear a person enough to where they can at least be of some use on the later tiers) (something better than kael but not as good as ToV comes to mind.


another thing, perhaps add in a few random placed contested mobs ( similar to how dain was before 2.0s, hard as rock and a week spawn), and flag that mobs drops as "Attunable"

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Shin Noir
Posts: 380

Re: A request...

Post#16 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:44 pm

Something else to consider is having gear link a little more.

E.g., You have a newcomer with Kael gear, or the previous tier of gear. East ToV will drop a new form of "coin" that is droppable and can be traded to newcomers. With these coins the newcomer can trade their old Kael gear + coins to a NPC and get a lesser form of gear than what drops in ToV.

This way for those who need to do back gearing they can just tell the newcomers to farm these coins, or farm coins themselves, and they at least will be semi up to par to take on the new tier.

Those who haven't finished ToV yet will be able to gear quicker too, but they will still need the drops of that zone to properly clear ToV and move on to the next tier.

The coins don't get released until a new tier is found, and at GM's disgression, and will always require that you at least some what complete the previous form of gear i order to utilize the coin system. This at least lets you hop every other tier in gear for newcomers.

Or yeah, I enjoy attunable gear.
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striat
Posts: 393

Re: A request...

Post#17 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:31 am

Personally, I disagree with removing no drop flies. Conceptually, this seems to undermine the server's integrity, which has been established through the numerous hours spent building and balancing zones. In addition, I think this could really harm guild competition altogether.

In addition, I don't think a coin method is the correct direction. I believe it facilitates gameplay, which is not always appealing to a large percentage of players. Rather than focusing on community improvement, it seems to focus primarily on addressing the fact of "what to do?". Finding something for players with extended play times to do should be handled separately. I haven't had the availability to devise a model, but I would definitely prefer one that did address back-farming while also strongly promoting community and server development.

By using the removal of no drop items or a simple currency method as described, I think we miss out on the opportunity to bring potential new players in for the long-haul and instead, I think it results in players saying, "Well, I think I could box 6 if I turned down all of my settings" with the potential to easily gear those toons up. And to be honest, boxing is something I personally do not like.

And do understand these views do not reflect Tyler or Lillu.

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Shin Noir
Posts: 380

Re: A request...

Post#18 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:49 am

at addressing boxing, it's possible to work on bosses that take more movement during the fight in order to survive, such as engage boss, and while boss is up kill X mob, then Y mob, etc, and those mobs need proper attention while maintaining boss mob, this makes boxing difficult if you have to move around, as every movement with boxing is # times harder since each box takes that much time to run around and coordinate, unless they're all autofollowing, in that case, make it tough to navigate too haha. :P

Also if you can make interactive things during the fight that require a brain like mini puzzles it makes for a more challenging encounter than turn on auto attack keep CH on boss and press a lot of buttons until it's dead... Hehe.

(I've had a ton of ideas about this sort of stuff, some not so original and have been done on live EQ but, I have fun doing it and even have some quests I've been working on along with my 923492349234 projects).

That aside, a lot of the community boxes, myself included, and the above may deter more than help out the community due people getting stuck on the new hard content that requires real players and not just boxed toons.

But even so, boxed toons would focus on main tank while real people go do the side stuff that requires brain. Hey, at least then it gives the people something fun to do!

I'd rather have really hard encounters than easy stuff though, it makes winning it that much more of an achievement. (This likely shows if you recall me being lvl 25ish wanting to go into guk already, etc haha)
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drawnir
Posts: 31

Re: A request...

Post#19 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:00 am

Shin Noir wrote:Also if you can make interactive things during the fight that require a brain like mini puzzles it makes for a more challenging encounter than turn on auto attack keep CH on boss and press a lot of buttons until it's dead... Hehe.


If it helps you on these ideas, a fairly high amount of raid encounters after the dragons of norrath expansion had alot of interactive encounters. Things like waiting for certain cues to avoid Cone AE's like on dragons like Kessadona (http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=17686)...or clicking stuff to avoid DT's like on Vule (http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=19344 <--now THAT event was a puzzle!). Or even simpler (well coding wise anyway, haha) Events like the Rathe Council or the first boss in crypt of decay (the one that spawned X skellies per dead guildie).

I totally agree with you that these kinds of scripts/events kept eveyone on their toes and made encounters a blast since it was all or nothing alot of the time...it was a nice change from tank & spanks or run and hide from ae's!

I don't know if these events are available to snag code from (kess and vule were instanced btw), or are too complicated to be supported, just trying to help.

Lola
Posts: 491

Re: A request...

Post#20 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:22 am

Please keep in mind that actually we neecd to 2-5 box to be able to raid due to lack of population on the server.

I totally agree with new encounters, movement etc...but not atm because we have to use boxing.

And also, let's stick with the subject which is: What can we do to gear new guildies without doing old raids too many times because of unlucky loots.

Tyler's idea on coins / turn in or even changing % on loottable for ALL/ALL items (or all mélée / priest+casters) would be at least a great change and would be easier to do for the GM team.

Loly

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