Top 5 melee DPS (The final word)

[Desimus]

[DISCLAIMER]: This thread is in no way shape or form meant to be a flame thread about how your class or some other class needs to be buffed or de-buffed DPS wise. Please keep all of that out of this thread. I'd like only objective input with as little bias as possible towards any one class so that we get nothing but the facts and find the top 5 dps classes on THF. (Mainly looking for the Developers to come in and say... here is the etched in stone top 5).

I'd like to start by saying, yes, I have read the previous post about melee dps. However, I find that a lot of that information is incredibly old and no definitive answer was ever given as to what the top melee DPS'ers were or should be.

In my opinion, all of the attempts to have people post and parse their own fights to determine who is the highest dps or what class is lacking is so incredibly subjective and varied this endeavor will never come to a factually conclusive end. I'd like to recommend (and I know this will take a decent amount of time but it can be done fairly quickly, as I have been a developer and done this on my own server for these exact reasons) that a dev take some time to gear themselves with the 2.0 + 1.5, and then on another parse the donater and 2.0. Equip all of the characters that are being debated with the same "powerful armor" from fire and parse, for yourself using just SKILLS (ie, flying kick, back stab, berserk etc...) and no disciplines, and make your own educated decision as to where these classes stand and where they SHOULD stand in your eyes.

Again I am only looking for factual input, if this is something that you can not take the time to do, perhaps you could find an aspiring developer or code / quest writer to take on this task. Though it may seem like a time consuming thing to do, however, in the end this will be "The Final Word" and no more debate about where what class stands DPS wise should be had.

Thank you again for all your hard work, time and patience I only seek to assist here and I Hope it does not come off as anything other than that!

Thank you,
Brad.

[Xebnok]

Great Post, I hope we can finally get a set in stone answer to this.

Regardless of the outcome it is a step in the right direction to fixing many issues with classes on this server.


My opinion is as follows:

Berserker > Rogue > Monk > Beastlord > Ranger


This is due to the fact that Berserker's have little to no survivability and not much utility. They should hit hard, very hard, and they should be a major force to be reckoned with.

Rogues should be a very very close second to Berserker's, they have some utility but its usually just to avoid death but they should be a close second or tuned in line with a berserker.

Monks should be third due to all of their utility (FD/PACI/Etc)

Beastlords should be fourth due to pet dps and their buffing utility and skills.

Rangers should be fifth due to the fact (in my opinion) rangers should be balanced around their BOW and they can avoid almost all damage in nearly all scenarios due to being a ranged dps class, they have very little risk.



This is just a quick once through and a very simplistic look at a complex issue.

[ChaosSlayer]

IMHO before you start doing any parses with weapons, skills and disciplines, you need to get a RAW base parse from any class who is just level 70, no AAs, no items, and everyone using identical 10 dmg, 30 delay weapons
Just turn on auto-attack and and let it run for an hour.

And see how everyone does with just that.

[Xebnok]

IMHO before you start doing any parses with weapons, skills and disciplines, you need to get a RAW base parse from any class who is just level 70, no AAs, no items, and everyone using identical 10 dmg, 30 delay weapons
Just turn on auto-attack and and let it run for an hour.

And see how everyone does with just that.

That sounds good in theory, but.


Not everyone uses the same weapon sets (Berserker vs. Rogue) and the balancing isint an issue at level 1-70 or even at the start of 70. The issue lies at end raid/max gear/max aa.

This is where the testing is needed in my opinion and this is where classes should be balanced around, for the most part.


Tossing 10/30 weapons on everyone and having no AA and no nothing would be a bad thing to balance around because that all goes out the window with max gear/aa.



Its also in my opinion that a definitive decision needs to be made on the ranks of the dps classes. If there is a decision then things need to be balanced around that decision period.

[ChaosSlayer]

true, but its RAW naked test will show you if any of the classes INHERENTLY performing well better than any of the others.
If you find out that paladin and sk armed with same weapon, and paladins scored +50% dps over course of 1 hour- then you have a problem =P
Then you take this BASE, and start adding to it, 1 thing at a time.

[Desimus]

I think you have a good idea chaos, this is why I suggest we use the 1.5 or 2.0's with fire gear. If you wanted to compare knights, or warriors to knights inherent ability to dps, your idea is great. However, if you wish to have an accurate assessment of where each class stands with a weapon geared specifically for them at a high end level... use the 2.0's and fire (or better) gear. This is what most will be using (Unless donater is purchased, which could also easily be tested). As Xeb said, my concern isn't always with the low end stuff as this server is not exactly slow experience.... for example I leveled a ranger to 70 and acquired 80 aa's in a little under 3 hours with the double exp tickets and I Still have one to spare. Granted not everyone has the accounts / classes to PL that fast but my point is the dps readings need to be done at high levels.

I like your idea though, that is a great way to compare some classes together!

[Arremis]

In my opinion, it should go:

Rogue > Berserker > Ranger > Monk > Bestlord

I agree that berserkers need a lot of love, and that they have become pretty much useless since they were originally designed to take advantage of the "Opening System", which SoE took out because of how unpopular it was. However, they have a few advantages over rogues: They have instant cast stuns and snares that check on avoidance instead of magical resists (and thus land relatively consistently). They don't have to be behind a mob in order to maximize their DPS (in which the core DPS of the rogue is the backstab). They have higher HP (they share the same table with paladins and SKs) which gives them the ability to tank reasonably well. They also have their war cry ability which gives them overhaste. Rogues do have a few utilities, but none of them but poisons have anything to do with DPS. If berzerkers top out on rogues, then they're only usefulness will be finding and removing traps and unlocking doors.

I think rangers should be third on the list, while I agree that they should be balanced around their bow, the fact is they are not. While I disagree that because they are a ranged class they can avoid nearly all damage, I feel that because of all the melee DPS classes, they gain the highest amount of aggro, they can't split groups like monks (and thus get mauled more frequently by hate-passing and group mobs), and currently, most of the pre-raid zones are indoor dungeons, which gives ranged attacks a serious disadvantage.

I put monks fourth because of their advantage of instantly dropping aggro. Monks high avoidance, blocks, and parrys (these get higher the more naked they are) keeps them from getting hit and if the aggro is too much, they can FD and have no aggro at all. They have the least amount of risk of dying of all the melee DPS.

I put beastlords last because I don't think a hybrid DPS should ever be able to out damage a pure DPS. Since beastlords have their pets to hold aggro for them, and with the recent boost to pets in general, they pretty much just stand there burning down the mob with no damage to themselves. They're risk comes with the death of their pet, but in that kind of situation, the mob should be nearly dead, so the damage to the beastlord should be minimal at best, and a good beastlord would never allow their pet to die if they could help it.

[Menobank]

while i agree i have to say i strongly disagree with you here Arremis and its not b/c i play a monk on EMU as well as on live. It is becuase you are compareing monks on EMU to monks on live monks on EMU do yno thave the restrictions they had on live where they have to carry under 12 stones untill 65....On emu they are lik every other class as for what restrictions thye have it will always very.

I do also agree with everyone here that Berserkers need alot of love you have to remember on live they where ment to be pure DPS and in a pinch a very good and capable spot tank.

I do not belive rangers should be before any ohter melee DPS as it stands Rangers have spells and procs that help them fight and live along with heals (crappy as they are) they can keep themselfs up far longer and far better then other Melee.

Monks get Mend which has a long refreash even with aa's and yes we can FD agro off but half the time we are fighting to save a cleric! *Maybe thats just me* Berserkers and Rogues get nohting really... Rogues did have escape iirc but i am almost 100% posiative that it is broken and does nto work.

Oh almost forgot ranger gate cant beat that! As for beastlords all they are in essance are a monk with spells and a pet their pet is the tankand they dps is what was orrginaly planned.

Thou seeing as i have never played a Berserker nor a ranger i can not vouch for htese classes and how they go DPS wise but i do think there should be a set list of who has best damage in game. While monks have alot of survivablity there are also times where monks will get 1 shoted because they are leather and cant top out hp like a zerker and rogue can thou they can get close same with ac.

Berseker/rogue/monk then bst then ranger
Just my 2cp

[Desimus]

All of you guys have great points and good information. Thank you for contributing to the thread!

I hope that we soon here from a developer on their opinions of trying to hash out an, as even as possible parse. As much as I Like to read what people have to say, my original goal here was to see if we couldn't get some clarification on what the ranks were for the classes and what the developers wanted the list to look like (and would work to via changes).

Please give us some insight here Tyler/Lillu!

[Arremis]

I have to agree that there are a lot of well-made points all around so far. Perhaps the developers should make all the melee DPS equal? That way, you just pick a class based on what you fancy playing

EDIT: Since one of the major disadvantages of the berzerker is their LOOOOOONG reuse timers, perhaps these can be shortened?