Top 5 melee DPS (The final word)

[ChaosSlayer]

Ranger should be defentely behind all pure melee classes, and BST well behind Ranger.
I also agree that unlike rogues, positioning is not an issue for a Zerker - rogue cannot possibly BS when solo or in duo with a healer. He needs someone to tank for him- just like like caster does. Zerker can go face to face solo, or as dps tank with a healer/caster duo.

I also see that Warriors somehow missing from the list
A quading dps machine they are- they certainly belong on dps classes list and Also well before Rangers or BST.

Now, when you compare solo/duo vs raid performance, things change considerably, as where 1 class can do very well on its own due "utility" abilities, its value drops significantly in a raid situation where its utilities are hardly used. (things like Paladin healing vs true Priest healing, BST slow vs Shaman/chanter slow etc)

And of course, in specific case of BST: on LIVE 75% of BST was its pet.
On THF you start with a level 60 weapon (epic 1.0) at level 1 basically.
Do you also start with level 60 pets? Nope.
Whatever changes were done to up the pets are INSIGNIFICANT compare to Armor and Weapons that melees are getting by level 70.
If you want to see BST back in its position of power as it was on LIVE- you need to give a pet which will be as tough as lev 70 npc (we talking 20k+ hp, and quading in 750+)
Again, what si important, BST never was direct dps class- it was more extrimly well all around jack of all trades, with very high level of self efficiency and survival. It rocked in LDON/casual grouips, where it could off tank, sometimes even tank, slow, heal, and other support things. But in raid situation, the only that really dealt damage was its pet, and it was nowhere close to what Ranger could in melee, simply due to innate Quading.

My DPS logical list:

Solo:

Monk > Zerker > Warrior > Rogue (can't BS) > Ranger > BST


Grouping/Raid:

Monk > Rogue (with BS) >Zerker >Warrior > Ranger > BST

[Koeril]

I also agree that unlike rogues, positioning is not an issue for a Zerker - rogue cannot possibly BS when solo or in duo with a healer. He needs someone to tank for him- just like like caster does.

Mobs in Emu only turn when they attack which allows Rogue to be able to solo backstab between their melee strikes - this is made even easier when the mob is slowed. Plus Daggerfall (sneak attack line) backstabs ignore positioning too, but they are rarely strong enough to count - I've only had a handful of 14k frontstabs on this server.

It becomes annoying and often is dropped when farming anything that won't hurt you, but for more dangerous mobs you get used to circle strafing all the time to get your backstabs in.

[Arremis]

I thought warriors were tanks like paladins and shadowknights, only there to be meat shields and hold aggro while the DPS classes burned the mobs down. While it's true that all classes have melee DPS (even clerics and enchanters), I don't think the primary role of the warrior is supposed to be damage output.

[ChaosSlayer]

you won't deny a fact that warriors with innate DW and DA, and 5% innate critical chance, can DPS in melee way better than ranger or BST possibly can

[Arremis]

you won't deny a fact that warriors with innate DW and DA, and 5% innate critical chance, can DPS in melee way better than ranger or BST possibly can

This is what I would call a class-balancing problem

So does that mean that warriors are too powerful, or rangers and beasts too weak?

[ChaosSlayer]

This means that Verant really sucked when it came to class design
What crazy person designed a class who consists exclusively of PASSIVE abilities - yeah fine so Warriors get DA, DW, Criticals, Mitigation bonus, berzerk mode etc etc, but what do you actualy DO in game?

/autottack

/bash
/kick
/taunt
/bash
/kick
/taunt
/bash
/kick
/taunt
/bash
/kick
/taunt
/bash
/kick
/taunt


yeah- warriors are inherently broken, simply cause they are the most boring class to play.

PS: monks and rogues are not far behind in the terms of "fun factor"

[Arremis]

LMAO yeah and rogues are like

/intimidate
/backstab
/attack off
/pick pocket
/intimidate
/backstab
/attack off
/pick pocket
/intimidate
/backstab

[Rerfu]

Ranger is a DPS class. Just because we get utility really doesn't change that fact, I pass out Guard of Earth and Howl of Chaos, I don't exactly call that utility. I run my ranger for the damage he does, period.

High end parses:

Rogue > Monk > Ranger Rest at the moment.

Berserker is either right ahead or right behind Ranger.

Rogue (Nigrog) as high as 6500+ DPS. Full buffs Shaman 2.0 Bard Song and Disc non stop.
Monk (Daddy) actual parses of 4700+ DPS without Shaman buffs.
Ranger (Rerfu) - Bow parses of 4100 with Trueshot and Oaken Crossbow to as low as 2100 Even. (Bard song no Shaman 2.0)
Melee Ranger parses are really all over the place, I don't have a solid warders wrath parse and I'm still missing Lifetap Augments. Suffice to say my melee weapons aren't at the quality of my bow currently.
Warrior - Harney is somewhere right below Berserker / Ranger.
Magician - Milein has 100% knowledge of his class, Maximum gear and AA and I think he's still around 2700 if not a little less.


I have no idea what Xebnok parses I would imagine its actually right around 4000 maybe even 4500, but he's the only Berserker we can use to compare and he's currently leveling a Rogue which definitely says something about the current DPS state.

I feel that damage classes should all at least bring in 3500 if not 4000 with max AA and current state of gear in the game, this includes casters they are DPS too.

Lets face it, a character is either a Tank (Warrior) Healing (Cleric, Druid, Shaman, Paladin) or DPS (All the rest)

[Xebnok]

I am nowhere near 4k.

Rangers have the ability to avoid nearly any and all damage if necessary and can heal and nuke and are able to dps decent with a bow non-stop without interruption.

I dont think they should be above any others but I think the gap between all dps classes could be smaller.



And no dev responses yet?

[Desimus]

Rerfu, the fact of the matter is even though you may not use your ranger on THF in a raid situation for anything other than DPS you still are a utility class (Per SoE's original design for them). You can root, nuke, dot, heal, snare, buff, self buff AND do ranged damage. I do not want to de-rail the original question here but the fact of the matter is that rangers never were top dps and in my eyes they should not be (but again this is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE POST! We just need an answer from the developers and maybe you are (on thf) supposed to be a dps class, no one knows but them). Still anxiously awaiting any comments from Tyler or Lillu here. I'll send Lillu a PM about it soon as I know a lot of us are interested and sometimes lillu and tyler miss posts as there are tons of new ones. Lets stay focused on the topic we can debate what class should do what in another thread, this is simply to get to the bottom of what the developers want!

Thanks again for everyone's input though! I'd like to read more of your opinions!

ON a side note, in lue of all of the opinions / recommendations for classes... could it be possible to have a team lead for each class that presents ideas to the developers so that their lives are easier? I think this would be a highly useful tool, and of course you all could still retain the ability to say yay or nay.... Just a thought!