Cleric Ideas

[ChaosSlayer]

I see what you saying Zoink, and personally agree for the most part.
IMHo verant essentially broke the clerics as class when they made CH (7.5k heal) at lev 44 for 400 mana which made any other heal in game useless.
It was a raiding spell, which defined cleric as the ONLY raid qualified healer (before Kunark, druid and shamy largest heals were about 350 - what a joke )

As I said before, in eq2 and wow, this problem was solved by making all healers equally efficient- yet different. For example in eq2:

-cleric is direct healer
-druid is healer over time
-shaman is preemptive healer (runes)

and based on type of mob or raid you are fighting which healer is the BEST for the job is highly situation dependent. Overall, no raid in eq2 ever leaves home without at least 1 of EACH priest type.

And beyond being healers they also had a number of utilities unique to the class as well as some DPS and solo potential. It was generally agreed that cleric was a survivor, which next to impossible to kill (by mobs, when soling) but his fights took very long to complete. Druid on other hand had high burst dps, but much larger chance to die if he would get more than he asked for, but he usually could kill things faster. And shaman was somewhere in the middle between the two.

As much as I would see set up like this one implemented here, the entire server structure- specially raids have already been set up with DEFAULT eq layout in mind. Attempting to redesign the classes, would then require to redesign the raids.. and I do not want volunteer for a job like that

We could do some minor additions to clerics to give them some flavor- specially on those hammer pets. Thought my current problem is that the pet you get from CB armor is already level 50 pet, which for first few levels of the game a bit overpowered (thought he looses power to mobs quickly)
If players would agree to loose that clicky pet, then I would be willing to set up a whole new progression line of these hammers from relatively low level till high end. And then we could discuss if these hammers could have some sort of special abilities or such.

Oh yeah there are also those summoned weapon hammers cleric has - to me they seem a bit useless, as you get your epic 1.0 pretty early, and then you can get even better weapons relatively shortly -so not sure how would a self summoned weapon truly help you.
I could add undead proc to a epic 1.0 whoever - that would be fun

[Koeril]

As much as I would see set up like this one implemented here, the entire server structure- specially raids have already been set up with DEFAULT eq layout in mind. Attempting to redesign the classes, would then require to redesign the raids.. and I do not want volunteer for a job like that

We're not really requesting any changes to the raid state of Clerics nor to redesign the class at all. We're all in agreement that the Cleric role as it pertains to raids is healing and nothing else.

Simply, it'd be nice to be able to solo a bit better ... a good example would be the giantslayer quest. Any class can do the giantslayer quest solo once at the appropriate equipment tier. However, a Cleric could never finish it because it takes him at least twice as long to kill anything before getting the PoFire 1HB. I couldn't imagine spending TWICE as long on that quest (ugh!) and honestly I still think it should be knocked down to 500 instead of 1000 (This last comment was off-topic and should be avoided in this thread).

[ChaosSlayer]

I am all for Cleric solability boost

Question to clerics - do you use much your Mark of Karn and Mark of retribution lines?
What are thoughts on it?

[thaylin]

I played with Mark of Blameless on my cleric a little, and it just did not seem to be worth the spell slot it required. I also believe it would be very hard to adjust that spell line to give clerics more ability to solo without making it overpowering when in a group.

[Ydiss]

nothing sensible done to the class would change that because whatever sensible upgrade the cleric is given I will still prefer to do with the class designed to do it in the first place.

Sorry, but refusing change won't do any good. Changes can be made, but just because they don't affect you, please don't condemn others for trying to come up with good ideas. No one is intending to remove a cleric from being a primary healer.

Not sure if I warranted that

I'm not condemning the idea and I'm not refusing change (I advocate change if I think it's worth it) and didn't say anything about the cleric being removed as a primary healer (I certainly didn't intend to say that at any rate). I'm just giving my opinion as a person who plays a cleric box. If the cleric was given some of the abilities suggested here so far it wouldn't make me want to play the cleric as a main; for me to play a support class as a main (something I would never do again because I did it for too long on Live) then the class would need to no longer be a support class.

Indeed, the class can be changed to suit my personal requirements but I personally wouldn't expect that change to be implemented.

Just giving my opinion so please don't take it as anything but that.

[Grey]

I know its another server with a different rule set, however..
Shards of Dalaya is my example for a battle cleric. (limit to 2boxing and no bots)

1-Spell that summons a hammer. think stats were 20/15 with a decent dd proc.
2-AA ability self buff took up a slot on buff bar which gave you a melee dd proc.
3-mid tier raid item with 40percent haste (good for that server)
4-AA line for spell crit maxed out.
5-Enc Haste.

Grouped with my paladin which would aoe agro 10-20 things at once. HoT with cleric, agro with paladin. Beat shit to death with cleric dps. Was called a fool but was able to duo xp in spots that full groups would wipe in. Of course this was when I played hard core and had one of the best geared paladins on the server.
--
Translate that to this server however you want. It is completely feasible to have a battle cleric. Would I use it on raids? Hell no. Did I enjoy xp sessions like that? Damn straight.

[Koeril]

Not sure if I warranted that

Sorry you feel that way. As far as I can tell there wasn't any harsh words at all in my post - firm, yes, but not harsh. After re-reading your first post I still see a very strong view point suggesting that it is impossible to change the Cleric class and an attitude of, "why bother even trying".

But whatever, I suppose I'm a bit more opinionated than most and speak my mind. Learning not too at appropriate times can be difficult.

Again, sorry you felt offended.

[Ydiss]

Not sure if I warranted that

Sorry you feel that way. As far as I can tell there wasn't any harsh words at all in my post - firm, yes, but not harsh. After re-reading your first post I still see a very strong view point suggesting that it is impossible to change the Cleric class and an attitude of, "why bother even trying".

But whatever, I suppose I'm a bit more opinionated than most and speak my mind. Learning not too at appropriate times can be difficult.

Again, sorry you felt offended.

Not offended at all, if I was I wouldn't have included the smiley What I meant by that comment is that I didn't feel my post was doing any of the things you said it was or, at the very least, it wasn't my intent. I just wanted to give my opinion on the matter, my take on it and how I think it would affect me.

So I wanted to clarify my position a little better to you, as it would appear the way I wrote my post has lead to the misunderstanding of my intent.

When reading a post on the net it's not always clear what the actual tone is but I felt pretty calm and relaxed when writing it

At any rate, whether my opinion comes across as strong or not they are still my opinions so, as I said, I hope that's all you take them for and they're just as important as those that agree with you I appreciate that you don't agree with my opinions and I respect that so there's no need for me to counter your points on the matter.

I don't think I need to go over my points on the topic again so I hope we can leave it at that.

[ChaosSlayer]

lets talk specifics.

Cleric hammer weapon - do you really think you would need it?
I could up is and make it worth summoning, but given items you can obtain normaly not sure it will be worth while. But I could give it some flavor.

Cleric epic 1.0 - I could add a melee proc to it, something like Heal proc, vs Undead, or universal Smite.

Cleric hammer pet - we could make this into a progressive line.

Considering overall dificulty of the server, the hp buffs feel to me on par with the mobs. Of course there is Sune Buffer, but IMHO a cleric should be able to buff himself and his group wihotu need to run to Sune every 30 min.

Hows clerics Lulls btw?

[Ydiss]

Pacify is a bit unpredictable. It works fine most of the time but it can result in a fail and that tends to = game over for the cleric