Proc adjustment - Discuss here

[Lola]

Purpose is to balance casters without giving them a 20K Fire based dmg nuke.
Parse your melees (NO MANA ISSUE) and compare your parses between other melees and casters (I opened a dedicated wizard thread).

Depending on critics (lucky or not lucky):
Self : DPS = 6K4
Raid: DPS = 7K6
For 110 max sec then OOM. (2x110sec + 15 sec gather click) = 4min with a decent dps.

Now before claiming that melees got seriously nerfed, make 2 parses:
Parse self buffed & raid buffed in the exact situation (FROM BEHIND NPC) with your discs.

And then, we can continue to argue if you were nerfed or just balanced with wizards (even if i consider that wizard should be on top for the first minutes of the fight so rangers which did 10K dps before were...hum unbalanced?)

[Tyler]

Goal is to balance Wizards out, then take a look at the other Int casters - so they are not forgotten.

As to only nerfing Melees and leaving everything else in place - we do it like this here - one step at a time to see what kind of consequences this change has. Now Loly posted parses about her Wizard toon doing about 7-8k Dps for 4 mins before going OOM and having no mana replenish item available. Thats about where i want Wizards to be.

Now i need to see where the Melee guys (Rogues/Monks/Warriors//Zerkers) are and then we can look at raising Panther again if needed. So please grab your friendly Shaman and get Panther and give me some data please.

[Harney]

Going to play devil's advocate on this one and ask for things to be left as is for the time being, I did CT with 2 warriors, 2 monks and a ranger DPSing with a bard and it wasnt even a 10 minute fight, thats 3 real dps classes with a bard behind them. I've done 5 million hp mobs in 4.5 minutes with 3 characters and a bot before, the DPS that you can condense in to a few characters became fucking ridiculous. Is it bad that a raid be required to have 2 groups of dps + bards / clerics to support them to do mobs like CT? I guess the real question is what THF see's as the ideal raid force, what they want to balance content around.

I really don't see how making mobs a bit harder ( at least at the extreme high end ) than what they currently were ( before the proc changes ) is a bad thing, I was boxing everything on the server save CT himself before the change, and even him I could duo. That really shouldn't be possible, unless THF is ok with people beating all of their content with less than 10 chars.

[Kron]

Purpose is to balance casters without giving them a 20K Fire based dmg nuke.
Parse your melees (NO MANA ISSUE) and compare your parses between other melees and casters (I opened a dedicated wizard thread).

Depending on critics (lucky or not lucky):
Self : DPS = 6K4
Raid: DPS = 7K6
For 110 max sec then OOM. (2x110sec + 15 sec gather click) = 4min with a decent dps.

Now before claiming that melees got seriously nerfed, make 2 parses:
Parse self buffed & raid buffed in the exact situation (FROM BEHIND NPC) with your discs.

And then, we can continue to argue if you were nerfed or just balanced with wizards (even if i consider that wizard should be on top for the first minutes of the fight so rangers which did 10K dps before were...hum unbalanced?)

Well the DPS lost now from the procs is much worse than i thought. Without parsing as there is no need to parse in this instance, we went down to Sleepers Tomb to kill one of the warders. Traditionally we have been able to kill this warder in less than half a stonewall discipline but yesterday, stonewall had been used and the warder still not dead.

Our guild (without bragging) has the most dps of all guilds on the server but yesterday it struck home as to how much dps we have lost because of the proc changes. Like Volgar said first, by doing this change it now means you need double the healing, double the tanks, double the DPS etc. I cant imagine what CT is going to be like if we try him tonight.

Server with its population simply cannot work with this massive drop in DPS. I am sure you are hearing the message that the benefit of this server of others is that a 2 man team can go around and raid all they want. Obviously with higher end mobs you need more people, but now thats all not possible.

Happy to be proven wrong but this is geniune feedback

[Harney]

It really boils down to what the server wants to balance raid content around imo, if THF wants 2 groups to beat everything, sure it's probably higher than it should be, if they want 18-24 chars to be able to kill top end mobs, then it's probably fine where it's at.

[Tyler]

And feedback is wanted and needed so thanks Harney and Kron - what i really need is hard data to know how much Panther needs to be upped again to make up for the loss of DPS.

Honestly though, a mob that is dead within a defense Disc is too easy at tier4 anyways or not?

As far as the amount of groups needed to beat stuff - that's hard to say really. Imo nothing after ToV should be done by a single group. End bosses should require about 2 groups + Bots.

[Lola]

Well the DPS lost now from the procs is much worse than i thought. Without parsing as there is no need to parse in this instance, we went down to Sleepers Tomb to kill one of the warders. Traditionally we have been able to kill this warder in less than half a stonewall discipline but yesterday, stonewall had been used and the warder still not dead.

Parses, make parses !!! 'Parses or it never happened"
Please stop discussing how it was before, we want figures/numbers because we are talking about class balance aren't we?!!!

And then you will adjust your raid roster because you will see more casters on THF!

Regards,
Loly

[Kron]

It really boils down to what the server wants to balance raid content around imo, if THF wants 2 groups to beat everything, sure it's probably higher than it should be, if they want 18-24 chars to be able to kill top end mobs, then it's probably fine where it's at.

Hoping for the former rather than the latter

[Harney]

After reading what Kron had posted, I wondered how much this effect really affected DPS, I looked through the magelo's of the top melee dps chars in fusion, venge todd and volgar, the only thing that you guys even had effect you was the panther proc, and maybe the runed soriz ring which is a complete non-factor anyway. If panther literally allowed you to double your dps, then it seriously needed to be changed.

[Tyler]

what i really need is hard data to know how much Panther needs to be upped again to make up for the loss of DPS.

Saying its apparent doesn't help me one bit btw. If you want to proof that DPS went down the toilet, go and parse. If you don't want to, fine.

Loly did supply hard data (even its only a small sample) but still. Your turn.