Proc adjustment - Discuss here

[Lillu]

First of all, it's not black or white, post valid points not exaggerations.

1. like Tyler said (already many times), shamans will be tuned up to be a desirable class. once again, patience. pushing us won't do anything, you should know it.
2. losing dps means one thing, your fight will take longer, and maybe you wont be able to box T5-6 bosses on yourself. It doesn't mean you'll need 80 players in a raid and didn't reduce the tanking capability of anyone either. yeah, maybe one round of stonewall wont cut it to kill a T5-6 boss, but it should have never happened in the first place.
3. you don't have to play casters. once again, it's not like you can't kill these bosses anymore, but it might be less trivial.

Lastly, I only see high-end raiders to complain about the nerfs, while these changes affects the lower tier raiders a way more. Strange.

[Tyler]

Also Panther still adds roughly 500 dps in its current state. I don't know why thats weak now. A single SK posted that his entire DPS plus pet was less than that.

So to sum it up - a Shaman can buff you in its current state and supply you the total DPS of a single class.

[Kron]

Also Panther still adds roughly 500 dps in its current state. I don't know why thats weak now. A single SK posted that his entire DPS plus pet was less than that.

So to sum it up - a Shaman can buff you in its current state and supply you the total DPS of a single class.

That SK example Tyler is terrible and misinformation.

Lvl 70 with with what 3 AA's and Kael gear?

If you want to compare SK DPS compare it to Coufu. Dont think my man reads the boards though.

[Lillu]

Also Panther still adds roughly 500 dps in its current state. I don't know why thats weak now. A single SK posted that his entire DPS plus pet was less than that.

So to sum it up - a Shaman can buff you in its current state and supply you the total DPS of a single class.

That SK example Tyler is terrible and misinformation.

Lvl 70 with with what 3 AA's and Kael gear?

If you want to compare SK DPS compare it to Coufu. Dont think my man reads the boards though.

the example might be bad, but a single buff shouldn't add more dps to any class, thats the point.

[Tyler]

Also,

if a caster is not your cup of tea, you are forcing casters(...)

What if melee is not your cup of tee but still want to raid? You are not invited to raids because your DPS sucks. Ideally, after the Balance has been completed (its never really complete, i know that) it shouldn't matter if you bring a rog, zerker or Int caster as DPS to raids or groups.

And to the SK - you are right of course, its a bit like apples and oranges. However they are both fruits

[Lillu]

Its not pointless. You stated the one Stonewall wont cut it now and we know it doesnt from experience in ST.

So how you do overcome this problem - its easy, play more warriors.

I'm just thinking about the knock on effects.

having 2 tanks on a raid to beat a Tier3+ boss is by no mean a "problem" in my book. I would call that a reasonable change.

[youthdragon]

Get another def click.. There only what 4 in the game for warriors.. x2 or 2 tanks I don't see a problem with longer fights. As for shamans they should be happy, cause know they will get look at and hopeful be more then a panther bot. I am pretty happy I won't have to make sure I have 4 click buffs on for procs just to do dps. It was always a pain to open a bag click this click that click off buffs I did not need so i can get a Hot on me. Know if they can just turn all the form clicks into one buff. If they think the fight is taking to long to kill or is to hard then Nerf the encounters hp's instead of increasing proc damage. I believe its time to Nerf the mobe's instead of buffing the players.

[khaliss]

Last night, I did a test of the Proc/Panther changes by soloing MoTG. I've boxed him many times, so this is my benchmark. Used to take him down with about a minute left on my stonewall... after the changes, it wore off at around 20% of MoTG's health. It is quite a significant change, and I had to pop my defensive ring. Also, take note that I do have a wiz, he was doing way more damage than he used to, if he wasn't there nuking, it would have taken me way longer to kill MoTG.

I welcome the change, melee dps is ideally where it is suppose to be now... with wizards now inline with the rest of the other damage-dealing classes. But, on the other had, it takes a lot longer to kill named/bosses that what we are used to on this server. One of the selling points of this server (vs. live) is that you are able to do things with limited number of players (or toons), it makes it attractive to people who can't devote their lives & time on a computer game. I'm a family guy, I have a full time job, and I have plenty of chores to do at home before my wife lets me play the game. I can't live in EQ 24x7 (like I used to in Live LOL)... so it is very important for me to be able to accomplish things without having to wait for 5 other players instead of the usual 3.

My only suggestion is this: COMPROMISE. Slightly scale down raid targets/bosses' HP that has 2 Million and up. Cut it down by say 15%-25% (depending on difficulty) ... so for example, Sleeper has 4 Million... cut it down to say 3.2 Million... Vulak has 3M (?), cut it down to 2.5M. PoAir avatars seem to have low hps, so you can leave them alone, etc. With that, you don't have to re-adjust melee AND caster DPS anymore for the time being... see what happens.

Just my 2cents.

[Lillu]

Is it possible to create 2 new dummy NPC with Fennin / Avatar and or CT AC (I do not take into consideration Knockback on CT, just need more AC on dummies for parses).

2 new dummies are ready to take some beating.

[Expletus]

Get another def click.. There only what 4 in the game for warriors.. x2 or 2 tanks I don't see a problem with longer fights.

having 2 tanks on a raid to beat a Tier3+ boss is by no mean a "problem" in my book. I would call that a reasonable change.

The problem with longer fights is this. One, the defensive clicky timer on the quest ring is 1 hour. The ring from Sleeper is on the same timer as the above ring. Stonewall lasts 8 mins with extention? with a 10 min cool down? So once stonewall wears off, you are left with one ring, with a 1 hour cast time. Lets put it in plane of fear terms. You are tanking Dread. He's got some Hp's. With the new debuff to panther, your stonewall or defensive clicky is burned up around 75 percent. What choice do you have as a tank? Burn your 1 hour defensive clicky which will probably last you the rest of the fight. Next mob, DT's you, DI doesn't proc, you're dead. Next tank uses stone wall... wears off, he's got nothing left except the 1 hour ring, uses it, OOPS DT'd again DI doesn't go off.. He dies. Rez'd tank takes control and you win w/stonewall. Next mob you only have stonewall. Guess what, when that puppy wears off you better hope you got 35k hps and 7.5AC and a couple healers. You move to CT, you are now forced to wait 45 mins for a ring clicky to regenerate, cuz stonewall will last till he's at 85 percent.

Basically w/the lack of dps, you are forcing two tanks to switch agro mid fight if their rings are down. This is a big problem, and realistically a paladin is not pulling agro off a warrior no matter how hard he tries for quite some time. Even then, switching heals to the new tank would prove difficult. The warrior would basically have to die and hope the rogues, ranger, and wizards cleared their agro enough for the new tank to take hold. Then you have to try and keep it from the DPS'rs that have been beating the mob to hell. Maybe cut the 1 hour timer down from the ring would help to fix that issue. The only alternative, is to expand your raid force, and you know my feelings on that.

This is meant to be constructive and put it into a higher end raid perspective.