Outcome

Explanations please - no flames
Lola
Posts: 491

Re: Outcome

Post#11 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:02 pm

I may be blind but still looking for Volgar's parse as high end rogue, please show me the thread & page.
Only rogue parses in summary thread is done by Tyler (Anon).

I am more interested in Top dps classes parses when you come & cry for wiz nukes...Even if all classes parses are important for balance (Julius, bard etc are not what I am looking for when I see you QQing on boards about wizards.)

I enjoy, I enjoy :)

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Expletus
Posts: 284

Re: Outcome

Post#12 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:17 pm

Now that this thread is hijacked w/you attacking me, I guess we can post whatever?

I have a problem with the wizard 2.0 being a 1 minute cast time for 100k+ crits. I think that is a little overboard. The fact is I've played both classes, and parsed both classes. I don't have a problem w/wizards being dps kings, I truly don't. I do have an issue with a near instant mana free 100k spell every 60 seconds...

That's my opinion, you don't like it ignore it, cuz this is the last time I'm addressing it.

Good day.
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Volgar // Poquet // Second // Third // Mistatee // Zoey
~Fusion~

Lola
Posts: 491

Re: Outcome

Post#13 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:26 pm

Expletus wrote:Now that this thread is hijacked w/you attacking me, I guess we can post whatever?


You hijacked the post: 1 page 7th post and you attacked the 2.0 wiz clicky.
Don't act as a victim...

I will also stop there, need rogues parses!
(Btw, where are Volgar parses? your wiz parses for longer fight than 0.8 sec...thread & page please)

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Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: Outcome

Post#14 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:32 am

He parsed a ton already so not sure where you are getting at Lola - btw, where is your parse? :)

That 100k nuke equates to 1666 DPS btw, its alot but its also a crit. So in overall its more like 1200 DPS i'd assume. Anyways - this is the very reason why we have this subforum.

Also,i'dlike to remind everyone to read what is written on the Class Forum -

Explanations please, no flames.


Fact is, Wizards were in dire need of a major boost. It obviously went a little overboard. It's not my fault that people take MONTHs to post parses to help out but are very quick to deliver a parse when they feel underpowered ;)

I already nerfed the Wiz spell by 1k in raw damage and now awaiting the results.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

Lola
Posts: 491

Re: Outcome

Post#15 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:51 am

Yes, I am trying to improve wizard dps where it should be : on top ! and that since 9 months now (also always claimed that casters in general should be upped), I have to admit that I am a little bit tired about that topic even if we made a lot of progress since beginning. Besides that, I am not very fan of another 3 hours parsing (mana recovery issue :)) just to see the impact of chaotic detonation nerf (which is clearly a nerf with dmg modifier/critic modifier) so I promised I will do that before end of this week, you will have before end of this week.
(Parsing a wiz is not afk'ing auto attack with 1 clic sometimes...)

I am just bored/tired of people whinning all the time.
Then again, he parsed ton (1 parse per char is not what I call ton - I was asked to run multiple parse and to give average figures) but where are Volgar's (rogue) & his wiz parses "he is talking about"?? I just ask the thread and page, where am I wrong?
So yes, I will continue to rumble all #random player who shows up & whine about wiz dps & 2.0 clicky.

Last thing: I know that you want only sun buff/Self buff...But where is the point of balancing when you know that bard 2.0 + chaotic legs clic + songs / Shamy 2.0 + godldy conv. + panther + might + #insert randon Raid buff#, result will be that High end monk / rogue / bard / Ranger (if non rooted mob) will > wiz (when the wiz still has mana otherwise it is priceless). Every group has a shamy, most of them also a bard...Even if chanty would improve a caster dps, it isn't worth switching a chanty for a monk. (But I agree that it gives a reason to have chanty as main / in group / raid for other buffs & capacities)

I ll post parse of my crew member once they get some better gear to argue on the last comment.

PS: besides some stupid mistakes i posted/addressed in 1 year and some useless flames, I think I try to help improving things in THF. I should have kept the /tells I received since the parse topic has been re-opened.

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Expletus
Posts: 284

Re: Outcome

Post#16 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:37 pm

Have you parsed with bard songs on yet? I've parsed Zanfire (julius' wizard). I didn't parse with a bard cuz it was my understanding Tyler only wanted sune buffs or no buffs after I parsed the bst w/bard.

Im still trying to figure out chanters :roll:
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Volgar // Poquet // Second // Third // Mistatee // Zoey
~Fusion~

Lola
Posts: 491

Re: Outcome

Post#17 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:22 pm

Yes I did 10 parses self buff then 10 parses raid buff with bard (did not have new chanty spells from PoS /druid 2.0 & shamy God. conv. at this time)

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3145

Gain from all raid buffs from melee vs casters cant be compared.

Still need to check if druid 2.0 only works for spells or if melees interfere
Chanty debuff (adv. cripple) is working (+5% dd spell)
Godly conv (cool but Wiz critic is already high so no real huge diff, still better..)

That will never balance melee raid buffs and there is also the mana recovery issue (when you want to keep the highest dps as we saw that rains can be the manafree dps but poor dps) that's why i "fight" to get a high dps self buff.
Besides that, wizard stuff help but is not what help us to keep a high dps compared to melee weapons etc...We just need to ask for spell upgrades everytime a new tier is released.

Valsavis
Posts: 123

Re: Outcome

Post#18 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:03 pm

Mana regen is already insaine on this server, I dunno why it should be improved more. Ench buffs got upgraded to make it even higher. It's not feasable to expect to not run oom chain nuking, esp with mana costs at higher lvls. Casters already have the advantage of mana regenerating buffs where as melee's only get a couple choice clickies for end regen. Most disc timers are also WAY higher than most spell timers so while a melee can hit some nice peak dps they can't run that dps constantly. Maybe you should run in and whack stuff a bit to improve dps /grin

Then again this is coming from a necro so I'll never complain about mana, but with the 2.0 clicky I honestly can't see any more needs for improvement. (only other class I can think of that has a remote chance of 1shoting another pc in the arena is a rogue if they get REALLY lucky with their opening backstab ex triple BS crit and technically that's a 3 shot :) )

Lola
Posts: 491

Re: Outcome

Post#19 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:37 pm

I do not complain about mana regen (which has been improve a lot since July 2009), I just say that, raid buffed, wizards just tie with some melees class (raid buff high end gear melee dps > 7K at least was before chaotic detonation nerf) beofre going OOM.
Where is the burn? chain casting during 2min to maybe not even equal melee dps is what we wait from wizards?
My answer, no.
That's why raid buffed parses were important also for me.

We do not pvp, 1shooting is not an argument to say that wizards are OP. When wizards will have a real DPS burn ability IN RAID during 2/3 min while ALL melees are behind, I will agree on "Wizards do not need any more improvement".
Till that statement, I won't.

PS :solution, make high end regular nuke dmg much higher than 10K5. No need to get a 100K nuke per min (when it critics guy otherwise 50K), just up once again regular nuke dmg.

If we do not consider raid buff, we will not completely harmonize class balance. I do not say it is an easy task, I just never give up on wiz dps even if I have to spend 3 hours per parses series....
In the meantime I also enjoy melee dps from my crew, easy high dps while auto-attacking with no mana issue at all.
Last edited by Lola on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Expletus
Posts: 284

Re: Outcome

Post#20 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:45 pm

You can't compare melee dps to caster dps and expect them to be the same. They are two different functions during raids. Melee should in theory, be higher dps due to repostle, dmg shield decreasing AA's, offhand increase aa and weapon proc aa's. While melee is taking a beat down, healers are healing MT / OT and melee from rampage. Whens the last time a caster took a rampage? The only thing a caster has to contend with is resists, which can be avoided with proper debuffs. Burst dmg, wizards are king. Long term dmg, they shouldn't be top 5. I don't know long term for wizards, but its my understanding necros are still lacking long term dps. Mages should fall behind the two, followed up by chanters. Wizards should not be king DPS in both.

This is solely my opinion, im sorry if it doesn't match someones list...

DPS Short Term:
Wizards
Mages
Monk
Rangers
Rogue
Zerkers


DPS Long Term:
Necro
Rogue
Zerkers
Monk
Ranger
Mages/Bst
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Volgar // Poquet // Second // Third // Mistatee // Zoey
~Fusion~

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