Paladin Suggestions

[Eppic]

I've been playing here a while now, and let me say it's been a blast! Great job to those responsible! I have 4 70's, each with their respective 2.0's, and have enjoyed the experience on each on so far.

I've read threads on here about people concerned about DPS, and as far as I can see, paladins have received a lot of love from when I played live (PoTime/Gates around 2003 I think). Although I'd love to see more (as would every class I'm sure), I'm more concerned about the current DPS play style. Frankly, it's slightly boring.

When tanking I have many things I can press. Stuns, bash, taunt, the occasional heal/group heal, as well as managing of defensive clickies (Kael gloves/Sleeper's ring). Although all these buttons are available to the DPS'ing paladin, I'm sure most would agree that taunt/stuns would be ill advised. There's also the need to worry about positioning of the mob in relation to the raid/group, etc, etc.

As a paladin attempting to DPS (as we all can't be tanks, especially when there are better options around, i.e. geared warriors) it seems there's nothing exciting going on. Rogues have backstab, Berzerkers have frenzy/volley, and both have a plethora of offensive discs to manage. To me, that's fun! Being able to separate yourself from others of the same class by the way you play. Palaidns currently auto attack, and pray that they get a ton of procs. There is the option to spend 31 AA points to get 2 hand bash + vicious smash, the end result is an ability that max crits for *drum roll* 282 (in my current gear).

Being new here, I'm not sure what is possible for the dev's to do; however I think it would be cool to get a new ability. It doesn't have to be much, but something worth hitting - something that if not hit, noticeably lowers damage output. Perhaps just a triggered strike that essentially is a single auto swing, and has the ability to trigger weapon procs. From a balance perspective (depending on CD) I can't imagine it breaking the current class balance. Essentially it would be similar to increasing the effective chance of the AA "Speed of the Knight" but would be an active skill, instead of a passive increase.

The following results are of a parse on Vlar (Vlan in THF was being hit by some SK, and I wanted accurate number). This was with sune/self buffs, hitting bash on CD, and keeping Yaulp VII up. I used the epic 2.0 clicky (with 2.8 aug) as a 3 minute timer, which as far as I can tell adds a 350 DD proc. I have a mixture of ST/PoF/Air gear, with similar augs. I also have the following mods:

2 hs + 16%, Fero VII, Chaotic Thunder (70%), Cleave VI, and DA + 16%. I also have Max offensive AA's including increased stats, and spell crit AA's.

Vlar on 11/12/2010 in 179sec

Total
--- DMG: 413320 (100%) @ 2309 dps (2309 sdps)

Eppic
--- DMG: 413320 (100%) @ 2309 dps (2309 sdps)

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On a side note, I had 16 triple attacks, and 96 double attacks (about 14% on Speed of the Knight), and bash accounted for 15.5 DPS...

If adding new abilities into the game is impossible, perhaps allowing bash to scale with 2 hs weapon damage, or shield AC would be another viable option. In way of disciplines, there's really nothing for a paladin unless hitting undead mobs which are few, and far between. Perhaps allowing Holyforge to work on all mob types would be a simple solution? I don't believe 5 minutes of slay power on all mob types every 1:07:30 would be too OP.

Finally I'm sure that SK's are in a similar boat. Perhaps these changes (if possible) could be applied to them as well. As far as I can tell, even with these changes, we'd still be well under the pure DPS classes. The gap would be smaller, and the playability would be more engaging.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for taking the time to read!

[Lillu]

You seem to be a pretty "young" paladin on THF. Pally is an awesome class here, we spent months balancing and tuning it.. I'll let one of our veterans reply your concerns tho.

[Lang]

pal/sk dps is terrible, but who cares? theyre great tanks with lots of utility.

im of the opinion that it would be hard to increase their dps, as your options are fairly limited. increasing ratio of pal/sk weaps to 255/x still wouldnt bridge that dps gap, so your talking about adding some kind of serious dps proc, which would put them ahead of warriors aggro-wise (presently war's are, imo, still much easier to hold aggro with vs a single npc)

even if bash did flying kick type dmg, it still wouldnt do much for your dps, because thats not whats limiting you. its the fact that you can only attack with one weapon.

if your looking for a new offensive ability, there are items with clickable dps discs in higher tier zones.

you start your post by saying you play 4 toons, im assuming you mean not at the same time? because the obvious solution would be to tab over to a dps char =)

<3 ,
Lang

[Eppic]

I guess the true focus of my post was lost in the large wall of text. I'm not searching for more pew pew zomg dps, just a bit more interaction with the class itself. Something to hit, that's worth hitting when not tanking. Currently I could hit bash, but there's no real reason too.

If any of the above suggestions were implemented, I wouldn't mind if they shaved off damage elsewhere too keep things the same. Like I said, just looking for more interaction with the class, as apposed to auto attacking... Just one man's opinion, hence the suggestion.

In regards to discs, if dropped clickies are the THF solution then that's fine. It would be nice to have one of our own that's built into the class though.

[Argonas]

sk rulez

[Brace]

I guess the true focus of my post was lost in the large wall of text. I'm not searching for more pew pew zomg dps, just a bit more interaction with the class itself. Something to hit, that's worth hitting when not tanking. Currently I could hit bash, but there's no real reason too.

If any of the above suggestions were implemented, I wouldn't mind if they shaved off damage elsewhere too keep things the same. Like I said, just looking for more interaction with the class, as apposed to auto attacking... Just one man's opinion, hence the suggestion.

In regards to discs, if dropped clickies are the THF solution then that's fine. It would be nice to have one of our own that's built into the class though.

I've made the same point before. If you're not tanking, its a really mindless class to play. That said, they make great tanks and once you get True Command ... it's quite an awesome spell, but you have to wait for PoAir kills for that. The fact that the multiple stuns available are absolutely worthless once you're dealing with either named mobs in non raid zones or any raid mob ... well that does suck ... a lot.

The ability to be fearless comes in handy down the road, but as I've said before, getting to that point is an exercise in patience. I personally have failed said exercise and use my paladin now to aa grind/pl other classes and/or farm plat.

tldr version:

Good tank class with tanking utility
Crap class for dps without endgame gear and/or donator equipment.

EDIT: I took the 2h bash aa for an extra button to hit too, got too bored before I had enough to bother with the other bash aa's though.

[Grey]

Stun immune is a bane of EMU that is for sure. Plus I hate seeing all the "your target is immune to that effect" type messages.
One of the now MIA server members had a seriously beastly paladin back in the day.
Its probably dated now but man that was impressive to watch tank.

[Harney]

Not going to get in to the specifics here but IMO the tanks are about as balanced as you could get. If I had to choose 3 tanks to have on a raid, it'd be paladin, sk, warrior. They all provide a benefit to the other class, none of them have a significant advantage over the other 2 in any area, except maybe warriors with dps... but tank dps is pretty negligable in a raid situation.

[Eppic]

Not going to get in to the specifics here but IMO the tanks are about as balanced as you could get. If I had to choose 3 tanks to have on a raid, it'd be paladin, sk, warrior. They all provide a benefit to the other class, none of them have a significant advantage over the other 2 in any area, except maybe warriors with dps... but tank dps is pretty negligable in a raid situation.

That's great, but what if you had 1 tank to pick for the raid? Regardless of your answer, this post was never about the paladin class being weak in any way. In fact, I specifically stated a noticeable boost from when I played on live.

This post was one man's attempt to address the current game play, and add a bit of spice to the class. Currently when playing a DPS role (due to not tanking), the class is fairly limited. You simply auto attack, and occasionally toss a group heal if there's AoE, or ramp damage going out. I just thought it would be fun to have an ability worth using, and an offensive discipline built into the class. Nothing more, nothing less. It seems that the few people that got the point original post tend to have a similar reaction to the current state of the class.

[Rystarvz]

Not going to get in to the specifics here but IMO the tanks are about as balanced as you could get. If I had to choose 3 tanks to have on a raid, it'd be paladin, sk, warrior. They all provide a benefit to the other class, none of them have a significant advantage over the other 2 in any area, except maybe warriors with dps... but tank dps is pretty negligable in a raid situation.

That's great, but what if you had 1 tank to pick for the raid? Regardless of your answer, this post was never about the paladin class being weak in any way. In fact, I specifically stated a noticeable boost from when I played on live.

This post was one man's attempt to address the current game play, and add a bit of spice to the class. Currently when playing a DPS role (due to not tanking), the class is fairly limited. You simply auto attack, and occasionally toss a group heal if there's AoE, or ramp damage going out. I just thought it would be fun to have an ability worth using, and an offensive discipline built into the class. Nothing more, nothing less. It seems that the few people that got the point original post tend to have a similar reaction to the current state of the class.

Well you are not a dps class so your dps "role" will of course be very limited. However when you tank you will have much more to do than if a rog attempted to "tank".

Its just how it goes.