From the heart(about HoH)

[Felibar]

Because that isn't the way HoH was designed to be.

[Brontu]

Simply delete this thread pls, since I am unable to defend myself or my thoughts out of warning of ban, the post serves no purpose other than scare others from speaking their mind. If it were truly an issue an anonymous poll coulda been started then you might have a chance at seeing how the majority truly felt. I have claculated the total number of kills needed to obtain a full set of hoh gear and augs based on god token drop rates and 1 a day clicky. Calculate it up for youself and see the numbers. Gearing from dsk is fast and easy and when your done with couple hour clear you have loots and augs for everyone and move on waiting for tomarrows pop. You wont get that from a couple hours in HoH.

Tal

I fail to see how all of sudden this scares people from speakign freely - discussions are always 2 sided (or 3 or 4...)

Yes it requires an enormous amount of points to get a full set/ full augs/full weapons etc.

Guess what its not supposed to be something u can do in 2 months, the evolving items, and the final rewards are there as rewards to the dedicated, hardcore, or insane. However you wish to label them.

Its a zone that forces you to follow progression.
1) Get 500 points to buy weapons
2) Evolve Weapons
3) Work on Solo Quest
4) Work on Group Quest
5) Work on Raid Quest (can do out of order but items dont count for quest)
6) Kill Final 4 bosses.

Based on these, yes its going to take months to complete HoH. Honestly thats refreshing. 3 months in DSK when it was still 90% broken was too quick for us. I cant speak for everyone, nor will i, but having to spend a few months longer than that doesnt bother us one bit.

And now - not to come across as a personal attack - i respect everyones opinion, and i can CERTAINLY understand being frustrated witht he grind. I'm sure if you asked Vaion the # of conversations we have had that started with "OMG I HATE YOU SO GD MUCH RIGHT NOW FOR THIS GRIND" is uncountable right now (<3 you vaion). But i have to say, it is what it is. And its optional. But i will warn you this, i HIGHLY doubt you will be able to skip HoH progression for the next raid tier 8).

Either grind and enjoy HoH for what it is, or dont. Wont tell people to stop b1tching because i do it non-stop, but i will say i do enjoy the zone, its a FANTASTIC change from DSK, and Volkara was one of the most fun bosses we have done in a very long time. vaion has gone above and beyond the call of duty here to make what hes done, and the sheer amount of work hes doing to make sure things run smoothly is insane.

HoH is not intended for immediate gratification, if thats what people are looking for in the end game i suggest they move on.

/sigh starting to ramble. As an addition i dont intend any of this to be an attack on anyones post, i do respect everyones opinion - i wont agree all the time, but thats life, simply trying to engaging in coversation.

[Treista]

I would just like to say that i agree that spending lots of time doing one thing tends to drag you down, I've never been one for doing crafting or farming of any kind simple because i just down right can't stand doing it hehe but from playing EQ live for the first 4 years it came out and moving onto many other MMORPG * sad to say many * I've learned that you simple go with the flow.

I've never been a hardcore player I enjoy my time helping others when and where i can if i'm not busy so this zone dos put a stump in my trail of happiness hehe

Everyone has good Points to make but it comes down to this

you do it to Progress

[Jeido]

Gearing from dsk is fast and easy and when your done with couple hour clear you have loots and augs for everyone and move on waiting for tomarrows pop. You wont get that from a couple hours in HoH.

Tal

Everyone on the raid gets up to 500 Godly Points for boss kills, how does that not accelerate gear progression for people who can kill the raid mobs?

[kavatar]

HoH is not intended for immediate gratification, if thats what people are looking for in the end game i suggest they move on.

THIS
i would be disappointed if we could waltz through t8 in a week or two. i've spent months in DS like a lot of others have and have felt highly rewarded when we finally killed xeru
gman

[Brontu]

Gearing from dsk is fast and easy and when your done with couple hour clear you have loots and augs for everyone and move on waiting for tomarrows pop. You wont get that from a couple hours in HoH.

Tal

Everyone on the raid gets up to 500 Godly Points for boss kills, how does that not accelerate gear progression for people who can kill the raid mobs?

Its actually not everyone on the raid - the boss mobs drop a # of points up to 400, in symbols based on how many people are on the mobs hate list (which i think is also a current source of crashes Vaion *cough* *cough*)

But its a great way to help catch those who cant/dont do as much farming as others, up to the rest of the raid, and a kill a night mounts up to a lot of extra points 8).

[Blique]

Going beyond that double point weekend that we all enjoyed and had alot of fun with...grouping together, getting to know other people, and evolves moving at a much faster rate. I feel I should post my true feelings about the zone on an everyday basis.

First let me say that I realize that many people farmed and worked there asses off for months to get their evolves lvld up and my hats off to you...all of you.

At this point, with HoH being the final zone and considered endgame I find it far from what i expect for endgame. I am sure there are others that feel the same way. There is just no incentive to keep me grinding on trash for months and months to try and get every item I possibly can in this zone. Rather I and others might wait and pray until the next tier boss zone comes out to simply bypass this one.

Sure, exp can move faster in raids of huge numbers but even then you end up with zone crashes ranging from 1 hour to 4 hours and I know Vaion is working hard to try and remedy that problem. Everyone says, we just need more people killing right? Our max players in zone during 2x was around 50, many afk but mainly with 4 to 5 hardcore groups killing stuff. At that point you were searching for mobs and waiting for spawns. Imagine what thats gonna be like when your tier below guilds get flagged and another 40-50 people come in.

For those who have suffered Im sure you understand, for those not there yet youll soon see. IMO the current exp system even with your 1 a day necklace is still too slow for casual gamers to progress a single zone. 1.5 or 1.2x exp would seem more reasonable with the slight chance if even .3% that the lower augs would drop off trash or some of the evolve items would drop from minis etc. There just has to be more incentive to get people in the zone to grind this trash other than just the points. At the moment its only rare symbol drops, rk1 spells, and potion components that you can combine with skill if you are able to kill volkara and get a rare drop bag to combine.

Everyones gaming style is different I guess, mine tends to feel needless grinds should be at the front of a game not at the end. Ive got a few evolves, two final, 3 lvl 4 about to final and I would also love to have those 10k augs, but you wouldnt catch me grinding that hard just to buy one let alone all of them.

This is in no way a bash at the devs for creating the system or at those who worked thier asses off to get what they have. Im simply speaking from the heart, and have spoken with many others that feel the same way.

Tal

I'm forced to agree to some degree, with Tal.

My first impression of the zone itself, is that its beautiful. I appreciate the hard work put into it, and I think that it shows.

That being said...

I understand the hardcore versus not hardcore views. My background, and that of a few of NV's people, is 6 1/2 days a week raid raid raid 12+ hours a day, calls at 4am for contested spawns, the call chain, the raid bottle (yeah I said it lol), the whole shebang.

Now, the way things worked over the double exp weekend, there were many many groups of people in there in a raid, from many different guilds, all working together for a common goal. People who for the most part hardly run into each other due to the instancing with the exception of t4. It was Nice. It was refreshing. I even chilled with a guy who lives in China and raises chickens /wave tal.

When double exp ended this morning...well it ended a little while ago, and theres nothing happening here, comparitively speaking.

Just about everyone bailed.

Even at normal exp rates, I don't see a problem when theres 8 or 9 groups working toward a common goal.

But as a single group in the zone, trying to evolve gear...

A final evolve on a BP takes ten thousand kills at current rates. 100 kill points per full evolve point.

From a standpoint of time versus gain, a guild could farm t7 daily and gear completely their entire raidforce with all the best gear from T7 in less PLAYED time than it takes a single group to evolve to final, a single piece of gear, which the reality of, other than class specific focus, is all the focuses are the same as t7 - dark X. So its a gain of some ac and HP and mana and a couple spells over the previous tier for casters, and those things plus the ability of the swingers to do damage and kill raid bosses.

I basically have all the playtime in the world right now. I'll probably finish the 849 kills left on the earring, and the 3831 kills left on a bp, but I'll then go back to t7 until there is absolutely nothing to be gained from it. Not because I'm not up to farming points at that rate, but because without those other groups there, its just not the same. It may as well be instanced. And once theres nothing to be gained in T7, I'm sure I'll be found in HOH, and on double weekends. Maybe things will change a bit with the rest of NV flagged and in there killing,, time will tell.

Tal talked about an anonymous poll...and this i gotta disagree with you on Tal.

There is just no need.

People - the clear and obvious majority of them - are voting with their feet, and doing other things.

Personally, I find that to be a cause for concern, and I find it makes the zone much less fun, overall.

None of what I say here, should be construed as a dig at anyone, I realize you guys put your time effort and heart into this server and the content, and it really does show both in terms of the quality of the content, and the loyalty of so many THF players.I don't want to see wow here on THF. EVER. As far as I'm concerned, thats the game that ruined the genre.

I don't think dialing things back a little would hurt though, either.

These are my observations and feelings, for however much or little they're worth.

Peace.

[Kron]

A very thoughtful and constructive post Blique

[Womos]

Well, after 4-5 intensive days in HoH, I can say atleast I, and few more guildies just wished it will be over already.
Dunno how long you played, but I guess I put there around 10 hours a day each day, usually soloing. Beatboxin played like 5 days without a nap
Also, can speak for the majority of mains in the guild, we're maxed out on hoh items, but even if we were not, I would still not stay there the moment after double xp ended, because I just wanted to change view, and also go get augs for all the new gear.
And already said it earlier in this thread, you don't have to get all your gear maxed out if you don't need to. If you're a caster, you don't really "need" anything, you only want. Can progress with your old/donor gear.
Many new people are getting flagged now it seems, imo give it a week for people to calm a bit from this hardcore weekend, and you'll see people back there.

[Blique]

If you're a caster, you don't really "need" anything, you only want. Can progress with your old/donor gear.

I pretty much agreed with alot of what you said. The above struck me as funny though.

I would say it depends how you define the word "progress". Yeah, I suppose if you define it as "progressing through content" thats true. But what for? So you can get to the next tier and "not need" but rather want stuff?

That lead sto what we have alot, and maybe maybe too much of already:

Glass cannons/debuffers, many half geared, viewed largely as a means to an end. Otherwise known as boxxed wizards and chanters. Im not saying there are too many boxxed wizards or chanters. Heck, I box a chanter myself. I'm saying theres another view of the word progression. Bront said eariler in this thread that he doesn't play for the gear, he plays for the new and exciting, and I can respect that. Thats one reason I play as well. But the other view of the word "progress" is on an individual level - that of becoming more than you were before you got and equipped "x".

Speaking personally, the day I can't progress as an individual toon, on any individual toon that I want to progress on, is the day that toon gets retired. Becoming more, as an individual, comes before and goes with, being a means to an end. Sure, I play to progress in the same way as you used the word. But when I do zones like HOH farming for gear, I do it with the expectation that it will lead to individual progress, and through that, becoming a more powerful means to an end, just like tanks and melee dps do.

I'm not callin ya out man, or taking any issue with ya, I'm just pointing out that points of view vary where gear and casters are concerned, and that not all of us are played solely as a means to an end. I think thats a fair and valid viewpoint, even if it isn't commonly manifest in game past t6 with mages and necros.

Anyway, back to HOH discussion.

Peace.