Tough class to balance and design for if you stick to the Live concept of mez/charm CC. That style is tedious and trivializes things to the point where mob dmg output has to be inflated to balance the risk. Then you are in a situation where mez/charm is always required.
Tanking is more fun.
Enchanters, please read and chime in
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Also, my charmed pet does some weird stuff. As soon as it take damage it starts summoning mobs to it as soon as I order them to attack. The mob in turn, summons my tank. It's a mess to position my melee classes.
Once the mob is dead, the charmed pet automatically summons my tank for some reason, not quite sure why.
A pet heal or a fix would be appreciated.
Also, I've noticed that the spell Euphoric Harmony will give me messages on my chanter when it has worn off members of my group. However, I have no idea how I ever buffed them with that spell.
Once the mob is dead, the charmed pet automatically summons my tank for some reason, not quite sure why.
A pet heal or a fix would be appreciated.
Also, I've noticed that the spell Euphoric Harmony will give me messages on my chanter when it has worn off members of my group. However, I have no idea how I ever buffed them with that spell.
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Charm: I guess this could use some work. i think the mini dogs in tier 8 are charmable. have never tried to charm anything to be honest
CC: Vaion has been incorporating this more into some of the tier 8 bosses, trust me. Enchanters are needed for a few of the fights.
Debuffs/buffs: mana flare/inferno are amazing buffs and can help a ton with DPS, i would highly suggest using these. thier entwining thoughts nuke has a debuff, overbearing power is rediculously good, thier epic debuff helps a ton, word of the phantamist helps a ton. i don't believe thier slow is as good as shamans? but it never has been. visions of power increases twin cast % and insight of the seer is a great buff. don't forget thier rune line.
damage: ench damage sucks, always has. BUT! they increase the damage of the rest of the group/raid so much it doesnt really matter.
They are the least played because they don't really reach thier full potential until tier 8, but the GMs are honestly making a good effort to make them much more useful. plus they are not a solo class, they need others for pretty much everything. but that's how it's always been
also, i responded to the euphoric harmony question in your other thread.
CC: Vaion has been incorporating this more into some of the tier 8 bosses, trust me. Enchanters are needed for a few of the fights.
Debuffs/buffs: mana flare/inferno are amazing buffs and can help a ton with DPS, i would highly suggest using these. thier entwining thoughts nuke has a debuff, overbearing power is rediculously good, thier epic debuff helps a ton, word of the phantamist helps a ton. i don't believe thier slow is as good as shamans? but it never has been. visions of power increases twin cast % and insight of the seer is a great buff. don't forget thier rune line.
damage: ench damage sucks, always has. BUT! they increase the damage of the rest of the group/raid so much it doesnt really matter.
They are the least played because they don't really reach thier full potential until tier 8, but the GMs are honestly making a good effort to make them much more useful. plus they are not a solo class, they need others for pretty much everything. but that's how it's always been
also, i responded to the euphoric harmony question in your other thread.
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Since i used to play Enchanter myself, this always has been one of my private projects. As most of you already pointed out, CC is not really needed in daily EXP groups and most people arent even aware of the concept anymore.
Sure there are raids where it is essential but nothing a good geared tank couldn't handle in your day to day business.
So we have charm (which personally i enjoyed the most) and the buff/debuff line.
There are some pretty neat buffs and debuffs already out there so i dont think the Enchanters hurt too much in this department. Sure, we can check the one or other buff and compare it to other classes but overall i believe the answer is in checking Charming. Availability, spells etc.
Not promising anything but when we had almost 500 people online like yesterday and not even 5% of them were Encs, then some more love is needed i guess.
Sure there are raids where it is essential but nothing a good geared tank couldn't handle in your day to day business.
So we have charm (which personally i enjoyed the most) and the buff/debuff line.
There are some pretty neat buffs and debuffs already out there so i dont think the Enchanters hurt too much in this department. Sure, we can check the one or other buff and compare it to other classes but overall i believe the answer is in checking Charming. Availability, spells etc.
Not promising anything but when we had almost 500 people online like yesterday and not even 5% of them were Encs, then some more love is needed i guess.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
I have a donor Enc that was fun in the low levels when you could charm and mez, but now I only drag it around to buff and help with big boss debuffs.
The new double proc buff is ok, but as it is a random chance if it procs I tend not to bother. I only keep the enchanter as it has a Donor weapon, and I dislike the fact I hardly use it.
Enchanters are going to be hard to balance I think. DPS is fairly awful with my enchanter using clicky DPS for the whole, debuffs are good on only the biggest mobs with lots of hp, and donor charm tends to be only the weakest trash mobs that a T8 mage pet could kill.
I'd like to see the rune line of spells upgraded a bit more. When I am struggling to keep heals, I just chain cast the 15k rune to help my clerics healing. Thats about as much use as I could get from my enchanter during a fight
Maybe some kind of bigger rune proc like the warrior donor 1.0, make it single target, 5k rune proc or something at least slightly useful. Similar to the caster double proc buff, but for melee. Might make an enchanter useful for the main tank on tougher mobs without breaking/overpowering, or even a lower mana 15k single target rune. Its annoying to spend so much mana on a group rune, when only the tank actually needs it.
Mana regen isnt a big issue once you have the Strange Thoughts clicky from T7.
Poor enchanters, they are fairly junk
The new double proc buff is ok, but as it is a random chance if it procs I tend not to bother. I only keep the enchanter as it has a Donor weapon, and I dislike the fact I hardly use it.
Enchanters are going to be hard to balance I think. DPS is fairly awful with my enchanter using clicky DPS for the whole, debuffs are good on only the biggest mobs with lots of hp, and donor charm tends to be only the weakest trash mobs that a T8 mage pet could kill.
I'd like to see the rune line of spells upgraded a bit more. When I am struggling to keep heals, I just chain cast the 15k rune to help my clerics healing. Thats about as much use as I could get from my enchanter during a fight
Maybe some kind of bigger rune proc like the warrior donor 1.0, make it single target, 5k rune proc or something at least slightly useful. Similar to the caster double proc buff, but for melee. Might make an enchanter useful for the main tank on tougher mobs without breaking/overpowering, or even a lower mana 15k single target rune. Its annoying to spend so much mana on a group rune, when only the tank actually needs it.
Mana regen isnt a big issue once you have the Strange Thoughts clicky from T7.
Poor enchanters, they are fairly junk
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
I'd love to see more utility in the class. I know we're not ever going to measure up to the wizard, mage, or necro with pure dps. I don't want to. Our itemization feels wrong, like 95% of all caster drops raise spell damage by clickies or foci, which really doesn't help us as much as the other classes.
If we could focus on other areas that enchanters used to do well at. Some ideas that maybe are worth pursuing.
1) New slow spell. We don't do well on damage. We don't have multiple roles like Shaman. Maybe we should have the best slow spell.
2) Proc rate increase buff. Proc more often - everyone would love more procs, possibly a low duration buff similar to the shaman panther line.
3) The Haste/Clarity line seems like it reached a peak. Insight of the seer really doesn't seem like much of an upgrade over what Sune gives out. It should have something different.
4) Unresistible stun spells. Short duration, short recast.
5) Better charm mob selection.
6) Visions of Power Rk. 1. High mana cost, short duration, 8% twin spell chance from T8? Nice if you have a caster around, could we get 8% (or higher to compensate since 8% more melee procs will be hard pressed to make up that extra 40k nuke) twin proc added to it?
7) Remove other class's AC/resist debuffs to make ours more in-demand. Leave debuffs to utility classes such as chanter, bard, druid, shammy.
Just some ideas.
If we could focus on other areas that enchanters used to do well at. Some ideas that maybe are worth pursuing.
1) New slow spell. We don't do well on damage. We don't have multiple roles like Shaman. Maybe we should have the best slow spell.
2) Proc rate increase buff. Proc more often - everyone would love more procs, possibly a low duration buff similar to the shaman panther line.
3) The Haste/Clarity line seems like it reached a peak. Insight of the seer really doesn't seem like much of an upgrade over what Sune gives out. It should have something different.
4) Unresistible stun spells. Short duration, short recast.
5) Better charm mob selection.
6) Visions of Power Rk. 1. High mana cost, short duration, 8% twin spell chance from T8? Nice if you have a caster around, could we get 8% (or higher to compensate since 8% more melee procs will be hard pressed to make up that extra 40k nuke) twin proc added to it?
7) Remove other class's AC/resist debuffs to make ours more in-demand. Leave debuffs to utility classes such as chanter, bard, druid, shammy.
Just some ideas.
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Stickybuds
- Posts: 883
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
yaeger wrote:4) Unresistible stun spells. Short duration, short recast.
i think this would be a cool addition. Could add some benefit to raid and group while not being overpowered so long as the stun durations are kept in check. Would also give the enc something to cast during fights other than debuff at start and then just clicky for dps the whole time.
but i really like the stun idea. stun is never used, other than on hate clickies and it just gets resisted and adds agro. Other than the mobs stunning us, we never get to stun them back post lvl 70.
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Just saw the love you guys gave the enchanter.
Thank you! Appreciate that you guys take proactive action and care about our concerns! Looking forward to the changes.
Thank you! Appreciate that you guys take proactive action and care about our concerns! Looking forward to the changes.
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Since 1 enchanter is awesome in a raid, but additional have very limited use, might I suggest a boost in dps?
I was thinking that Dire Charm could use some beefing up, as a possible solution. Either i) raise the level on it to something at or near 70, or ii) have a unique mob type in each tier that is dire charmable, perhaps comparable to a t8 rk I necro pet with the 25% pet focus, but notably without the ability to summon, flurry, or rampage.
Also, if dire charm gets any kind of boost, pleeeeease allow the pet affinity aa to make the charmed pet group buffable (unless it's a huge coding pain).
I noticed that T5 has dark blue con elementals that are perfect for dire charming, but they're super low hp and dps. It seemed like they were placed specifically for dire charm - and I really like that approach.
Just an idea.
I was thinking that Dire Charm could use some beefing up, as a possible solution. Either i) raise the level on it to something at or near 70, or ii) have a unique mob type in each tier that is dire charmable, perhaps comparable to a t8 rk I necro pet with the 25% pet focus, but notably without the ability to summon, flurry, or rampage.
Also, if dire charm gets any kind of boost, pleeeeease allow the pet affinity aa to make the charmed pet group buffable (unless it's a huge coding pain).
I noticed that T5 has dark blue con elementals that are perfect for dire charming, but they're super low hp and dps. It seemed like they were placed specifically for dire charm - and I really like that approach.
Just an idea.
Re: Enchanters, please read and chime in
Are there any plans for Enchanters in the works? They're still essentially a buff/debuff and forget class.
No need to have more than one in a raid. Charm is all but useless and except for some very specific events, crowd control is worthless to the point where it's far easier to have an extra tank than use the micro required to mez targets.
No need to have more than one in a raid. Charm is all but useless and except for some very specific events, crowd control is worthless to the point where it's far easier to have an extra tank than use the micro required to mez targets.
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