Advice on group to box?

[toby]

Hi all!

I used to play PEQ a while back but looking to start on a new server! I will be playing casually with no set schedule, so while I might eventually want to join up with a guild or something, I want to be as self-sustaining as I can.

I'm looking for advice on what to box and how many guys to box... I've looked through several threads for info, but I've seen some conflicting opinions about classes and what's best. Obviously there will be more conflicting opinions in this thread, but at least it will be more specific to what I am trying to do!

I have no problem doing as many boxes as I need, or I can even split duty with my brother who might play as well.

Question 1)

How many people/boxes are needed for the top level content? Can I do pretty much everything with a group of 6? Group of 4? Are there raid type scenarios that require ~24+ players?

Question 2)

It sounds like bots are helpful at the start, but no good later on (no AA, no clickies, etc). I would rather just level up my group together from the start if I am going to have 6 guys in the end.

That said, assuming no bots, what is the best group to roll with?

Normally I could figure that out on my own, but it sounds like class utility is quite a bit different here. I heard that Shamans are useless end game because slows don't work on most of the mobs. I heard Enchanters are useless (aside from mez, I guess) because you can get mind buffs for free in the forest. I heard that Paladins are actually good on this server! (or is that only for bots?)

I assume for a 4 or 6 man group, a Warrior and Cleric are still a requirement for end game content -- even if a Paladin works fine as a tank levelling up.

Then... obviously need DPS. I've heard that Bards are actually good DPS? Which classes are best DPS on this server? Which utility type classes are still useful?

This thread is getting too long so I'd better cut it off!

TLDR: Is a 6 man group good enough for most high level content? What classes are actually useful on this server for high level content? Or, if 4 man group is good enough for the content, which classes are best for that instead?

Thanks for any help!

[Beatboxin]

1) I and a few others can solo all content atm with 12-18 toons though donors do play an effect to the people that can do this.

2) Bots do not use clickys but they do get all there aa as they lvl. but are not allowed to be in group while in a raid. If making a full group I wouldn't mess with them.

3) Not sure who you spoke with but shamans and enchanters are not useless end game shamans are great for buffs/debuffs/heals and slows cause MANY T7-T8 mobs are slowable Enchanters have IMO the best debuffs and of course mezz/buffs.

I have played all 3 tanks top end and they all work great and do there job with no problem though IMO Pally is best for he can not only heal/cure himself and his group he is an AE agro magnet.

Bards dps is decent nothing to wright home about but the utility that they add to your groups dps/regen is worth it by far. (I play 3 bards, 1 for each group I have)

DPS is really preference, mage/necro seem to work well if you like pets ( I do not like pets personally lol ) I like wizards myself cause there a 100% dps class and if there's a good enough tank there never get summoned and do there job well, and even better if have the right debuffs/buffs are present. Melee is not bad dps either with the recent changes Vaion has been making to balance melee Rog,Mnk,Zerk are all really nice to play and worth having if you go that route and like melee.

As for your group Tank,Cleric,Bard any 3 dps or Tank,Cleric,Bard,Shaman any 2 dps for IMO I do recommend having at least 1 shmy and 1 enc present end game. That being said keep in mind its all preference on what you should play, others like myself will have opinion as well but the balancing that the Dev's have done most anything will work as long as you enjoy playing it.

Hope this helped a little.

[toby]

Thanks for the info!

I'm confused about your (1) -- do you mean you have to donate for the privilege to box 12-18 guys, or to do it with only 12-18 you need the donor weapons or something?

You say you do recommend at least 1 Shaman, 1 Enchanter for end game. You mean with the 12-18 group? I don't imagine you mean Shaman, Enchanter, and Bard in a 6 man group, because that isn't enough DPS right?

How well do Rangers do for ranged DPS? Comparable to Wizards at all after AAs? If I am going to have a Bard in the group it seems like I should use standard Melee DPS or a Ranger?

Thanks again for all the help, just trying to get some base information down since it sounds like things work a little differently here!

[Nilbus]

In general Wizards will outdps rangers. The primary advantage that rangers have is without 3rd party software, a tab over to their window an assist macro and /autofire means you can ignore them the rest of the fight and focus on your healer or tank or other dps.

Bard songs help melee and casters so don't feel you have to use melee dps with the bard. All 3 support classes (ench, sham, bard) have debuffs/buffs that help both sides really.

You don't have to donate to play 12-18 (or more) but doing some raids with that few would require donor gear (mainly on the tank)

[toby]

Cool, thanks for the tips!

I've got a question about an odd group combo I'd thought about before. Beatboxin mentioned Necromancers earlier when talking about DPS. Are they still good DPS late game?

I always thought it would be fun to do:

WAR CLR SHM NEC NEC NEC

The general idea was:

- Warrior tanks, obviously
- Cleric main heals, since there is no Enchanter they would get mana from the Necromancers (transfer)
- DPS from 3 Necromancers + 3 pets with full Shaman buffs
- Necromancers (Iksar) stay in constant Lich form, healed from items + Shaman regen spell, mostly covers lost health
- Shaman is there to buff the pets, off heal pets, root, slow, etc.

It is a bit less gimmicky on this server since you can get free mind buffs anyway, but I thought it would be cool because you can get almost all the other buffs from Cleric and Shaman, and the Necromancers solve Cleric mana problem, so it would be fully self sustaining.

I mostly wanted to try to see if it was feasible on a normal server, but I'd still be interested in maybe trying it as a side group here.

Are there any issues with that? (e.g. Necromancers are bad DPS at high level, the spells won't stack or DoTs are always resisted, etc)

Thanks!

[Noren]

Forget how necros worked on live, as it's very custom here. For tiers 1-8 you will never mana dump because the spell doesn't scale with the content. That may change soon, but for now that holds true. My recommendation is that you choose a style. You go dps heavy, heal heavy, or balance.

Bards are fantastic, but if you put them in a group with any less than 3 pure dps, then you're just wasting the bard imo.

All of the other advice seems spot on in this thread. I can comment that necros are decent but not the best dps. They have awesome survivability though to make up for what they lack in dps. They're also hard to gear up because they need literally every focus in the game. No other class does. And they are high maintenance with twisting dots and nuking and pet control. I love em, but hey - they aren't perfect.

Hope that helps.

PS keep in mind that it's easier to gear up a diverse set of players. No one wants to farm weapons for 5 dual wielders, nor do they want to get 5 sets of silk caster stuffs! Armor and weapon (not to mention spell) diversity can keep you sane and prevent burnout trying to farm content for an eternity.

[toby]

PS keep in mind that it's easier to gear up a diverse set of players. No one wants to farm weapons for 5 dual wielders, nor do they want to get 5 sets of silk caster stuffs! Armor and weapon (not to mention spell) diversity can keep you sane and prevent burnout trying to farm content for an eternity.

Aah, thanks for reminding me about that! I tried a group of rogues once and it was kind of a pain (yes, all rogues). It wasn't so bad until I was farming armor in Kael for hours and hours. The group actually worked pretty well up until I gave up on them at level 62. I would buff up before and hide to pass off damage to other rogues with higher HP and just use bandages when out on the field -- stuff died so fast I didn't take that much damage anyway, and I could hide and AFK to heal too if needed. The idea was to sneak in and assassinate key NPCs I wanted... I guess I have some weird group ideas.

Thanks for the info about Necromancers! I knew I should have asked! I can see why the mana transfer stuff wouldn't be so great end game here.

Bards are fantastic, but if you put them in a group with any less than 3 pure dps, then you're just wasting the bard imo.

Do you think WAR CLR BRD SHM <DPS> <DPS> isn't enough DPS, then? If they are melee DPS then they have the Shaman buffs as well, but it sounded like maybe melee DPS wasn't as good but is getting better?

Or does the Bard really provide enough mana regen and utility where WAR CLR BRD + 3 DPS is safe enough? I guess if I did PAL CLR BRD then I wouldn't have to worry about the healing part as much. I'm just a little unsure about the Bard's ability to cover all aspects of a Shaman or Enchanter at once... haste, slow mobs, mana regen, travel, etc. I know you can twist spells, but can they really do it all sufficiently?

[Noren]

Slow is a non-issue. The vast majority of bosses are immune to it, save for a select few along the way.

Mana regeneration is negligible when you're dps heavy. I favor dps for many reasons, but the most logical is that you can kill most bosses within 1 defensive disc. This setup excels with a warrior tank who can disc every 10 minutes. You seem to have a conservative approach to raid events given your favoring of a backup healer. So in that case going dps heavy may not be for you. I can confidently say a non-donor tank can handle everything solo healed (although the air avatars are scary tough) until PoFear and onward (T6+).

You could always play 7 characters. I would do tank, cleric, 3 pure dps, bard, and a shaman/chanter on the side. But that's not what you asked for

[toby]

I might roll 7+ down the road for sure, but I will probably start with 6 and see how far I get.

I guess on this server it is pretty easy to catch up new characters, so maybe I am over analyzing and I should just start and tweak later if necessary.

If you had to pick 3 DPS classes, though, what would you pick?

I see some recent parse results but it all varies so much based on equipment it is hard to tell what the general theme is for which DPS classes are best.

This should be my last question. Thanks!

[Noren]

Rogue, necro, wiz/mage.
Support with a bard.
Tank with a war.
Heal with a cleric.

The devs did a great job balancing, so really you won't see a big difference with other dps classes. I just recommend that combo as a Swiss army knife. I had a blast playing those classes.