How much content can be duo'd?

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toby
Posts: 16

How much content can be duo'd?

Post#1 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:07 pm

Hi all,

I'm capable of boxing a full group (or more), but my friend and I might want to try to just duo or duo+bot for the challenge and also to focus on just one character.

I sort of got the impression that since it was easy (or at least easier) to get to 70, most of the content here will be focused around high level stuff, which will be more likely to require a group. Is that true? Or can a lot of it be duo'd if you are patient, have a good combo, and maybe build up some AA's?

Also, side question. If we did Enchanter + Shaman + Monk bot, on this server do you think Enchanter's charmed pet can keep the aggro from a Monk bot, or since everything is gear dependent will the Monk bot severely out DPS charmed mobs later on, so it won't work?

Thanks!

Noren
Posts: 1053

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#2 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:20 pm

toby wrote:I sort of got the impression that since it was easy (or at least easier) to get to 70, most of the content here will be focused around high level stuff, which will be more likely to require a group. Is that true? Or can a lot of it be duo'd if you are patient, have a good combo, and maybe build up some AA's?


Yes, most of the content here revolves around high-level stuff that requires a group. My first character here was a monk that I solo leveled to 64. I then made a pally bot and finished the grind to 70. From there, I started a duo with a berserker buddy of mine. Collectively we were a trio of monk, zerker, and pally bot. We finished our epic 1.5s. We collected some Kael armor (which wasn't easy). We checked out Ssra (which really wasn't easy).

We utilized the Sune npc in the forest to keep us hasted. We died a lot, but also had some really fun, nerve-wracking battles. Using only dropped and bazaar equipment, we didn't get very far through progression.

toby wrote:Also, side question. If we did Enchanter + Shaman + Monk bot, on this server do you think Enchanter's charmed pet can keep the aggro from a Monk bot, or since everything is gear dependent will the Monk bot severely out DPS charmed mobs later on, so it won't work?

I confidently believe that won't work. For starters, bots are considered player characters. In that respect, no NPC (pet/charmed mob) will ever take aggro from a bot, because they can't. Monk bots are fine bots - all of the melee bots are, really, but they won't tank well. Even the tank bots won't tank well. I poured 10s of thousands of plat into gearing my pally bot with World Boss loot and he still was a paper tank. Why? No defensive discipline. Bots can't use disciplines.

Do I think you'll go far with that shaman/enchanter/monk bot combo? Not very =( That's not for lack of skill and strategy at playing - that sounds like a fun trio - but content is not that easy here. I think you'll find that the vast majority of bosses are unslowable, that crowd control is hit-or-miss since many mobs have an immunity to such spells, and that shaman heals are downright slow for fresh 70s. Especially when you're trying to heal a poor little monk bot.

My personal take, having played here for some time, is that you'll struggle if you and your friend both play support roles. Someone needs to play a leading role, and that's going to be a tank. If you play a tank, shaman, and monk bot you'll do well. I still think you'll hit a wall at some point in ToV (tier 2) unless you [1] support the server by donating for gear, or [2] join forces with other players, or [3] box.

I say give it a shot! Create accounts here (not through eqemulator.org), try out whatever combo your heart desires, and give it a real shot. Have some fun, die a bunch, and if it's just not working out, then you can add something else to the mix. There's no shortage of friendly people on the server. They'll buff you, help you out in the open zones, and give general advice if you seek it out politely. You've got nothing to lose =)

toby
Posts: 16

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#3 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:05 am

Noren wrote:I confidently believe that won't work. For starters, bots are considered player characters. In that respect, no NPC (pet/charmed mob) will ever take aggro from a bot, because they can't. Monk bots are fine bots - all of the melee bots are, really, but they won't tank well.


I can see how there would be a problem and the Monk would take aggro but then not tank well... what about without the Monk bot so it doesn't cause trouble? I know on a more classic EQ server, Enchanter & Shaman is about the most powerful duo you can get (except maybe Enchanter & Cleric). It seems like the mobs would still be powerful when buffed against other similar mobs, right? Or is it laid out more like "raid bosses" at upper levels where the player is significantly better than all mobs in the zone except for a boss mob?

Noren wrote:I think you'll find that the vast majority of bosses are unslowable, that crowd control is hit-or-miss since many mobs have an immunity to such spells, and that shaman heals are downright slow for fresh 70s.


This makes it sound like even without dealing with Monk bot, that strategy doesn't work here just because of CC & amount of "boss" mobs?

Noren wrote:There's no shortage of friendly people on the server. They'll buff you, help you out in the open zones, and give general advice if you seek it out politely. You've got nothing to lose =)


Ya, everyone has been really helpful so far! :)

If I were to do Tank, Shaman, Monk bot... what tank would be best? It sounds like they are all pretty reasonable. What tank has the best DPS?

Thanks!

Noren
Posts: 1053

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#4 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:29 am

toby wrote:I can see how there would be a problem and the Monk would take aggro but then not tank well... what about without the Monk bot so it doesn't cause trouble? I know on a more classic EQ server, Enchanter & Shaman is about the most powerful duo you can get (except maybe Enchanter & Cleric). It seems like the mobs would still be powerful when buffed against other similar mobs, right? Or is it laid out more like "raid bosses" at upper levels where the player is significantly better than all mobs in the zone except for a boss mob?

Raid trash isn't a joke. If you're just getting into Tier 2 from a mix of Kael/Ssra gear, then you're going to be in for an abrupt boost in mob damage. They're not pushovers for a duo. Compared to bosses of that tier, though, the trash mobs are chumps. I'm relatively certain that your charmed trash mob tank will go from alive, to enraged, to dead in quick order. Add into that the untimely charm break during a boss fight and you've got the shaman summoned right into the fray and dead in seconds.

I think it sounds like a blast, but I'm a huge doubter that it can be done successfully through even Tier 2 (of 8 tiers).

Perhaps a trio might be a good approach for you and your friend. Considering how high maintenance it is to play a charming enchanter, have 1 person run the enchanter and dps bot. Then have the other person play the shaman + tank.
toby wrote:This makes it sound like even without dealing with Monk bot, that strategy doesn't work here just because of CC & amount of "boss" mobs?
I can't say "doesn't" because I haven't tried this strategy exactly, but I'll bet you've grasped my negative outlook on the strategy as a way to progress on THF =) I'd love it if you proved me wrong, though - it sounds like a fun challenge!
toby wrote:If I were to do Tank, Shaman, Monk bot... what tank would be best? It sounds like they are all pretty reasonable. What tank has the best DPS?
Warrior has the best dps but will struggle with aoe aggro control until very late in the game. Warriors will also have the most defensive disciplines available when considering the multitude of clicky items. They're far from a no-brainer, though. Pallies and SKs are great in their own right and offer better self-heals for survival.

I chose a warrior, myself, and I'm happy with that decision. As for a bot, I will submit that a rogue bot may be the best choice for dps. A lot of monk dps comes from the combat ability window. As bots have no access to combat abilities, you are then looking at a monk bot that is limited to auto-attack and flying kick. Flying kick well... it sucks if you're comparing it to backstab. It doesn't scale. You can upgrade your gear from Kael to Tier 8 and you're pretty much going to always flying kick for the same measley damage... Alas, I'm rambling. On to the point!

Warrior is the highest dps tank. (does not make it the best, necessarily)
Rogue is (90% sure) the highest dps bot. (does make it the best)
Enchanters get some wicked-good debuffs.
Shaman get some wicked-good buffs.

My personal recommendation is to have you and your buddy level 3 characters together. Bench the tank, and try it with the duo. See if it can't be done. If it can't - oh well, at least you tried. Bring that tank back into the mix.

Good luck!

toby
Posts: 16

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#5 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:03 am

Thanks for all the tips, definitely a big help!

I'll try to do a tank with my Shaman, I think that sounds like a good idea. :)

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Tyler
Posts: 4365

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#6 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:03 am

Without wanting to promote the donator route, but if you really want to duo, you can do alot with a Mage or Necro Donor Robe. This one summons a pet that is beyond hardcore and will serve like 3-4 tier 4 dps players.
Item Change -> Reload needed
Spell Change -> Reload AND new Spellfile needed

toby
Posts: 16

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#7 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:26 pm

Tyler wrote:Without wanting to promote the donator route, but if you really want to duo, you can do alot with a Mage or Necro Donor Robe. This one summons a pet that is beyond hardcore and will serve like 3-4 tier 4 dps players.


Does that mean it is unbalanced, then? (Will this maybe be adjusted down later?)

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Lillu
Posts: 11301
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Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#8 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:40 pm

T8 pets are also pretty decent. And no, no plans to nerf anything.

toby
Posts: 16

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#9 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:56 pm

Are Shamans good enough healers for a group? Like Warrior, Shaman, Monk... or if I wanted to try to get as far as I can, would I need a Cleric for sure?

Kalenyo
Posts: 20

Re: How much content can be duo'd?

Post#10 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:38 am

I am not sure about Shaman, but I know you don't *have* to have a cleric. In Chiron for quite some time it was just one druid healer. Even now our main healers are druids. So, I don't see why Shaman can't heal you though. =)

I wish you luck in your adventures!

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