Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Anything wrong with them?
Entelion
Posts: 28

Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#1 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:18 am

I think the Enchanter Donor weapon and Donor BP need a serious examination.

Here is why:

People buy donor weapons/BP's for the clicky effects. Yeah, they have nice stats and really nice worn effects.. but lets be honest. Would you donate 155$ for the mage robe WITHOUT that pet? I don't think so.

With that being said.. This is the Enchanter robe and clicky effect (I'll get to the worn effect in a minute) -

Enchanter: Razliyn, Shroud of Coercion
Click Effect: Wave of Coercion - Mesmerizes all nearby NPCs with an Unresistable Mesmerize. When the mesmerize fades, the NPC will cast a point blank AE that will place a powerful debuff on the NPC and any nearby NPCs. This debuff will lower Stats by 150, All Resists by 100, AC by 1500 and Decrease the NPCs Max Hit by 10%.


Sounds awesome, right? Unresistable AE mez, instant cast? That's what I thought, too. However, the "Unresistable" still doesn't cut through NPC's who "Cannot be mezzed" So you can't use it in practically ANY raiding zone because even the trash in most places can't be mezzed. Granted there are a couple mobs in a few zones that can be mezzed.. but the point of an AE mez is an "oh shit" reaction, then time to do proper CC. If half your mobs aggro on you because your "unresistable mez" was resisted... You are no longer CCing, you are CRing. (hah! clever)

Now let me explain why I think this is wrong. EVERY other BP has a clicky that in NO WAY can be resisted. Can't resist summoning a Mage / BST / Necro pet. Can't resist an AOE taunt. Can't resist a BUFF. Can't resist the Priest line of summoned aids.

In theory, every other Clicky effect on every other Donor BP works 100% of the time. The enchanter's Robe clicky is "blocked" by over 50% of the mobs I cast it on. Yes, the debuff still hits. But all that does is create more hate when I bought it to Crowd Control. I get the debuff is really nice. Reduced max hit by 10% is great. That's all I use it for, now. I can't use it on adds before the fight, why do I need to reduce the attack of trash? So I just save it to cast on the Boss.. but then whats the point of an AOE mez?

I just think that I donated just as much to the server as anybody else who received a BP for their donation... I think mine should work every time, like everybody else.

------------------------------------

As for the weapon:

Same thing. Weapon clicky (One of them, anyway) Is Dire Charm.

Name : Dominating Colors
Classes : Enchanter (254)
When cast on you : Wonderful colors - you will obey.
When cast on other : turns into a slave.
Mana : 0
Skill : Alteration
Casting time : 6 sec
Recovery time : 2.25 sec
Recast time : 2.25 sec
Range : 200
Target : Single target
Resist : Magic (adjust: -1000)
Duration : 120 hours (72000 ticks)

Spell Effects
1 : Effect type : Charm up to level 73


---

Now, if you combine that with one of the robes focus effects:

Enchanter: Razliyn, Shroud of Coercion
Focus Effect: Sovereignty of the Mind - Allows your charms the ability to Pierce through a NPCs charm resistance by 100%. (This will not affect Quest or Boss NPCs).


Pierce through charm resistance by 100%!! (Quest/Raid Boss aside [duh])

But guess what? 95% of mobs (trash, not boss) in t8+ raid zones (Even if they are White/Yellow cons -- IE Lvl 70 - 73) Are "Immune to Charm" (Vex Thal courtyard trash, to name some)

Meaning 100% resistance is 100% worthless.

So not only is half the clicky effect on my robe worthless... But one of the focus effects on my robe is worthless, too.

Oh, and so is my clicky effect on my weapon.

--------------------------------

I understand that my donation was for the server, and not for the item. However, I think in all fairness.. If my donation was of the same monetary value of somebody else (155$ for robe, 65$ for weapon) I think my gift for donating should be of the same playable value as somebody else.

Thank you for your consideration.

-Entelion

Vaion
Posts: 3712

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#2 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:34 am

I am personally a big fan of the "if you don't like something, throw out some suggested changes" philosophy. While you did mention a few modifications that could be made, would they really satisfy your desires of making the Enchanter more appealing?

As far as the uncharmable Vex Thal trash mobs, that was just an overlook and has been fixed. All trash in the zone is now charmable with a piercing charm modifier. There are 3 others throughout the zone that do not require the piercing charm modifier.


As for the clicky on the BP, what suggestions do you have? Understand that we cannot make it affect unmezable mobs. This would cause a huge disruption with how events are done and 1-2 enchanters with robes could keep all adds/events under lock down indefinitely.

One possible change I just thought of off the top of my head is:
1: Piercing Stun (15s)
2: Chance to Cast on Target: 100% Chance: Doppleganger
3: Cast On Spell Fade: 100% Chance: Coercion's Will
Total Duration: 30s Reuse: 3 Mins

Things to note with this: the piercing stun would essentially allow you to stun NPCs that are immune to normal stuns. This total stun time is only 15s to ensure that it is nearly impossible for an enchanter army to keep NPCs perma locked. The doppelganger effect essentially allows you the scape goats to get away when you need to bail out of being hit without drawing attention to yourself. And the Coercion's will remains the same.

Again, that is just a possible change that I thought of. We are more interested in hearing what you (as the community) would want.
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Entelion
Posts: 28

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#3 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:26 pm

Thank you for the reply and the suggestions... I apologize for not providing suggestions along with my post, I spent all of my creativity for the week on the Worn2 suggestions post you had made for the VT items.. :mrgreen:

Now, would the piercing stun penetrate a stun immune mob or would the same sort of issue arise in.. Typically the things in higher level zones are Immune, not resistant.

Therein lies the issue with a suggestion I was thinking of as well with an AE slow.. Where more mobs in higher level zones are slowable (But highly resistant) and a piercing slow might be worth while.. It really isn't the "oh shit" first step to CCing that a 15 second ae stun or mez would be.. because damage is still being done, just slower.

Conversely, if the stun were able to pierce through a "stun immune" mob.. Would you be able to make Raid Bosses immune to that? I don't know a thing about the programming behind these events but it seems you could really wreck how an event is supposed to work with a well placed 15 second stun.. (I.E. events where the Raid Boss CH's at like 20%. Would a stun / burn kill him without the CH? Or would he just freeze at 0% then CH when the stun wore off? Would he CH through the stun? Would there be a rip in the space-time continuum? Would Bill Cosby zone in and give me pudding pops? I'm not sure.)


-----
My suggestion:

Spell name: "Entelion's spell that makes him a worthy addition to a raid." (negotiable)

An AE 75k rune that stacks (with other runes, not itself) - Castable every 10 minutes.
-Duration 5 minutes.
As well as a second, short duration (25 - 30 seconds) spell that provides the chance (5 - 10%) to proc a doppleganger when you are attacked (Even if you are absorbing rune damage)

-My reason for such a large number is: in the spirit of the original BP's intention (sort of a get your raid/party out of jail free) most t8+ mobs will rip through a 30 - 40k rune before you could lock down the adds.. So perhaps instead of an item that Mezzes the adds that would kill your Healers/Casters.. Just make an item that negates the damage those adds are doing. Essentially doing the same thing as an AE mez. (Keeping your squishy chars alive) and an item like that wouldn't ruin an event like Vistrinda where an AE stun would (I assume) upset the NPC's that are helping you.

I guess when I look at the other BP's in the donor line... They are more on the Cast on yourself/group to benefit.. Not cast on other mobs to detriment. (However, the resulting buffs are quite detrimental)

----

As a community member and Everquest enthusiast.. any chance I get to be a part of the design or modification of my favorite game is highly engaging for me. So please, if what i said didn't make any sense or isn't possible I would be more than willing to continue brainstorming.

Thanks for listening.

-Entelion

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Nilbus
Posts: 1258

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#4 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:32 pm

To me, enchanters on THF are buffer/debuffers. My innate dislike of charm from live carries over and honestly mez is not used in that many events.

How about making it the caster version of the shaman bp? Maybe a doppleganger that casts an ae on all players that either ups spell damage or adds twincast/a mana inferno type strike, adds a small rune (maybe 5k?) and a chance to increase mana on players around it every 15 seconds?
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eqwerty
Posts: 21

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#5 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:58 pm

Follow up question, and shameless bump for what looks like a thread that could use some attention :)

Does the debuff from the robe land consistently on boss mobs?
Are you able to charm anything in DSK+ at all with it? (other than the wimpy cats in HOH)

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Lillu
Posts: 11301
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Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#6 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:30 pm

Please keep posting suggestions, we'll get to it asap. Lots of other donator items are also long overdue to get a lift-up, we'll work on them as time permits.

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Rude
Posts: 454

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#7 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:28 pm

My main issue with enchanter donor weapon is the other one. The garg illusion with DPS buff. Death March IV from SK's is > that buff. But I'm a man of little ideas, so... :D (please, please don't nerf DM4 because I said this :P)

Xorp
Posts: 103

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#8 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:00 am

Enchanter BP..

1) Reduce cooldown to 2 min + increase duration on Coercion's Will to 2 min

(yes, I went there ! - Explanation: Let's just assume that if mobs aren't mez immune, even a chanter without BP can generally keep them locked down if they wanted to. This just makes that process easier / quicker / more consistent, something a donor BP SHOULD do. Also, with this change, if the crowd controlling aspect doesn't appeal to you and the way you use your chanter, then the ability to keep mobs debuffed more consistently certainly should.)

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2) Add a Fading Memories effect for the enchanter in a way that they won't draw agro at any point throughout using the BP.

(Because hey, this is what enchanters DO. They screw with your mind; so bad you don't even know who's doing it)

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3) Possibly bump the AE range up a bit to 150ish?

(give the chanter more breathing space or room for error when positioning within chaotic multi mob pulls.)

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I think the above changes would make the enchanter BP finally in league with the eyebrow raising, jaw dropping effects that almost all the other BP's have, without a whole lot of extra effort / coding with changing it. It enhances both the mezzing aspect of it and the debuffing aspect, for whichever way you happen to use your enchanter. (and yay for you if you use both!)

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Lillithe
Posts: 35

Re: Enchanter Donor Weapon/BP examination

Post#9 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:05 am

A couple ideas I'd like to see with the chanter donor stuff (and overall)...

1- Change the 350hp lifetap proc to something in the range of 750-1k group lifetap. There's 500hp group lifetap augs, I would think the donor buff would be much better.

2- Add a damage modifier to the charm to bring the charmed pets DPS lower than necro, but greater than BL.

3- Add overhaste, again considerably greater than existing overhaste. I know I have a 17% overhaste at T7, I'm sure there's a T9 that's better. But if 17% is the highest, perhaps a 30% overhaste buff.

Chanters were known for their CC, mana regen, and haste. I think expanding on any of those principals in a way that would make them more appealing to the raid groups would be beneficial. I know from our standpoint, we have one raid that a chanter is needed for in T8/9, other than that, there's not much value added overall for us to have a chanter.

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